keris palembang

JBG163 · 16th August 2020, 12:46 PM

Looks like a Balinese blade to my eyes ... But my beginning opinion could surely be wrong hahaha

A. G. Maisey · 16th August 2020, 02:00 PM

No, not Bali.

Jean · 16th August 2020, 02:04 PM

Not a sepokal blade anyway IMO

A. G. Maisey · 16th August 2020, 02:24 PM

True Jean, it is not, I'd give it as Sinom Robyong, but the interesting thing is the tannguh that it is not, but in a different suit of clothes, would be.

sirek · 16th August 2020, 03:25 PM

Thank you for the comment, I already understood that a keris from Palembang is not easy for me me to understand , as mentioned in an older post with a similar blade:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=palembang

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Palembang is in South Sumatra, it had and has long time political and cultural ties with the House of Mataram in Central Jawa, and was also influenced by Banten. Because of these associations the keris that come from Palembang very often have features that resemble either Banten keris, or Central Jawa keris.
.

A. G. Maisey · 16th August 2020, 11:01 PM

Yes, Palembang is difficult.

The tangguh system that I use is the one I was was taught by Mpu Suparman. It addresses major tangguh classifications only. However, minor tangguh classifications can be accepted. The overriding requirement to give any blade as a tangguh classification is that it should be a style that can be regarded as representative of a geographic area or of a period of time, an era.

The problem with Palembang is that keris made in the area of Palembang were made in a number of styles that were copies of styles from other areas and other eras. For Palembang there is no hard-core dedicated style that we can associate only with Palembang. For this reason it is in my opinion impossible to have a "tangguh Palembang", but in recent years dealers in Jakarta, and I guess other places as well, have wanted to describe keris as "tangguh Palembang".

So this keris under discussion could resemble a Banten keris, or a keris from Central Jawa, but Banten keris seem to have a stylistic variation that might prevent classification as "tangguh", and keris from Central Jawa have several different tangguh classifications.

Any ideas about what might be appropriate for this particular keris?

Jean · 17th August 2020, 09:57 AM

The dapur of the blade looks Javanese but it may rather be from Palembang for the following reasons:
. The blade looks rather short, less than 35 cm?
. Pamor keleng
. Shape of the greneng, jenggot, twin lambe gajah, and gonjo (top view).
. The fitting of the blade into the scabbard is so neat that it looks original.
Regards

kai · 17th August 2020, 10:01 AM

Hello Alan,

Well, the square blumbangan points to the Mataram line (including extant offspring substyles). The ron dha are very crisp - most old blades will exhibit worn down and restored greneng.

From the excellent state of preservation, I'd guess that this blade entered a colonial collection right after manufacture; there even seem to be some working scratches left at the base.

I believe that this blade got crafted in Palembang following old Mataram style; if the ri padan were not sharp on the inside curve (difficult to establish from the posted pics - an angled view would help), this would support the notion.

Regards,
Kai

16th August 2020, 12:46 PM	#1
JBG163 Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: France Posts: 207	Looks like a Balinese blade to my eyes ... But my beginning opinion could surely be wrong hahaha

16th August 2020, 02:00 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	No, not Bali.

16th August 2020, 02:04 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Not a sepokal blade anyway IMO

16th August 2020, 02:24 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	True Jean, it is not, I'd give it as Sinom Robyong, but the interesting thing is the tannguh that it is not, but in a different suit of clothes, would be.

16th August 2020, 11:01 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	Yes, Palembang is difficult. The tangguh system that I use is the one I was was taught by Mpu Suparman. It addresses major tangguh classifications only. However, minor tangguh classifications can be accepted. The overriding requirement to give any blade as a tangguh classification is that it should be a style that can be regarded as representative of a geographic area or of a period of time, an era. The problem with Palembang is that keris made in the area of Palembang were made in a number of styles that were copies of styles from other areas and other eras. For Palembang there is no hard-core dedicated style that we can associate only with Palembang. For this reason it is in my opinion impossible to have a "tangguh Palembang", but in recent years dealers in Jakarta, and I guess other places as well, have wanted to describe keris as "tangguh Palembang". So this keris under discussion could resemble a Banten keris, or a keris from Central Jawa, but Banten keris seem to have a stylistic variation that might prevent classification as "tangguh", and keris from Central Jawa have several different tangguh classifications. Any ideas about what might be appropriate for this particular keris?

17th August 2020, 09:57 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The dapur of the blade looks Javanese but it may rather be from Palembang for the following reasons: . The blade looks rather short, less than 35 cm? . Pamor keleng . Shape of the greneng, jenggot, twin lambe gajah, and gonjo (top view). . The fitting of the blade into the scabbard is so neat that it looks original. Regards

17th August 2020, 10:01 AM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Alan, Well, the square blumbangan points to the Mataram line (including extant offspring substyles). The ron dha are very crisp - most old blades will exhibit worn down and restored greneng. From the excellent state of preservation, I'd guess that this blade entered a colonial collection right after manufacture; there even seem to be some working scratches left at the base. I believe that this blade got crafted in Palembang following old Mataram style; if the ri padan were not sharp on the inside curve (difficult to establish from the posted pics - an angled view would help), this would support the notion. Regards, Kai