Indonesian( ?) short sword

francantolin · 6th June 2020, 06:46 PM

Hello everybody,

I would like your opinion and knowledge about this item,
It's not my area but it seems quite old ( 19th ?) and an authentic tribal piece,
maybe indonesian ?

it was sold as a sword but I find its quite small, 53cm / less than 21 inches long
more a machete ?!?

The hilt is made of wood maybe of horn with silver inserts
( and silver on the scabbard ? )

There is I think a missing piece at the end of the hilt.

Glad if you help to fix it

Kind regards

Sajen · 6th June 2020, 06:54 PM

Hello,

It's a Karo Batak kalasan! The missing piece at the handle would be a silver sheet. Nice piece with an unusual handle.

Regards,
Detlef

francantolin · 6th June 2020, 08:33 PM

Hello,

Thank you for fix it !

Do you think the hilt is a later replacement ?

It seems horn but can be hard exotic wood

asomotif · 6th June 2020, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Do you think the hilt is a later replacement ?

Yep, I do.

Interested Party · 6th June 2020, 09:03 PM

From what I can tell the Batak are mainly Christian/Muslim, yet the choil seems to be a shiva linga to me. Is there any more knowledgeable member out there able to amend my ignorance? Sorry for the pun.

francantolin · 6th June 2020, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

From what I can tell the Batak are mainly Christian/Muslim, yet the choil seems to be a shiva linga to me. Is there any more knowledgeable member out there able to amend my ignorance? Sorry for the pun.

Yes, it looks like the symbol often seen on kukri daggers...
a strange ? interesting mix ?...

francantolin · 6th June 2020, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

From what I can tell the Batak are mainly Christian/Muslim, yet the choil seems to be a shiva linga to me. Is there any more knowledgeable member out there able to amend my ignorance? Sorry for the pun.

Just found this one , same motif, sold as a karo batak kalasan too by specialists

... a mix of differents cultures/symbols ...

Sajen · 7th June 2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Yep, I do.

Hello Willem,

Why? I really think that the handle is original, the motif/ornament on it is typical a Karo Batak motif. I've never seen such an handle before but I have no doubt that it's original to the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

asomotif · 7th June 2020, 12:54 PM

Hello Detlef,

The hilt and scabbard are very different in style and craftmanship. So I think the handle was added later. Which is not a bad thing persé.

@ Francantolin, do you have a picture of the kalasan in the sheet, to see how the handle connects with the scabbard ?

Best regards,
Willem

Sajen · 7th June 2020, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

The hilt and scabbard are very different in style and craftmanship. So I think the handle was added later. Which is not a bad thing persé.

@ Francantolin, do you have a picture of the kalasan in the sheet, to see how the handle connects with the scabbard ?

Hello Willem,

I see what you mean. Maybe not the original scabbard?

Best regards,
Detlef

francantolin · 11th June 2020, 05:27 PM

Hello,

Here some pics of the scabbard-blade,
( Not fast, time to receive it + problems with my login )

I see what you mean,
sure it's not the same style but it fits pretty good in

I have a second one and if I try to put it in the second scabbard it don't fit at all
even if this blade is smaller...

francantolin · 11th June 2020, 05:33 PM

And the second kalasan ( now I know

! Still thank you Sajen !!! )

Nice hilt, sold as wood but clearly light horn.

A ( nice ) classical model ??

Kind regards

Sajen · 11th June 2020, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

A ( nice ) classical model ??

A somewhat better example, the blade has an unusual shape and I like the very nice horn hilt!
Compare with my Batak knives.

Regards,
Detlef

francantolin · 11th June 2020, 06:59 PM

Really nice items !!
How long is the bigger ?
( mine 60cm-23,6 inches long )

I find my ''second one'' looks like the last on your picture.

I have to clean ( not to much ) the silver parts
make it a little more shiny like yours

Sajen · 11th June 2020, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Really nice items !!

Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

How long is the bigger ?
( mine 60cm-23,6 inches long )

The one in up is 64 cm without scabbard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

I find my ''second one'' looks like the last on your picture.

Only the file work near the handle but the general blade shape is different and I doubt that this example from my collection can get called kalasan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

I have to clean ( not to much ) the silver parts
make it a little more shiny like yours

Batak silver seems to be very pure since it's get black again very fast.

Regards,
Detlef

kronckew · 11th June 2020, 07:31 PM

Another Kalasan, horn grip, Aceh style. tight well fitted scabbard that matches the sword. 24in. blade.

Sajen · 11th June 2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Another Kalasan, horn grip, Aceh style. tight well fitted scabbard that matches the sword. 24in. blade.

Hello Wayne,

It's Batak style, the Aceh style is similar but different in fine nuance.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 11th June 2020, 07:46 PM

Here the file work at my andar-andar, the example in down.

kronckew · 11th June 2020, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Wayne,

It's Batak style, the Aceh style is similar but different in fine nuance.

Regards,
Detlef

Thanks for the info.

Sajen · 11th June 2020, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Thanks for the info.

Hi Wayne,

You can check it here by a drawing from Volz, tranlated from our member Roland.

Regards,
Detlef

francantolin · 12th June 2020, 10:46 PM

Thank you for the informative picture with the differents models,

So what do you think of my first model ?

original piece looking like the number four with Tanke djembe hilt

or a composite weapon with his all silver covered hilt and his matching scabbard with really different decorations/patterns ?

Kind regards

Sajen · 13th June 2020, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Thank you for the informative picture with the differents models,

So what do you think of my first model ?

original piece looking like the number four with Tanke djembe hilt

or a composite weapon with his all silver covered hilt and his matching scabbard with really different decorations/patterns?

Looking at the patination I would guess that it's original, maybe the hilt get renewed long time ago. I personally like it and would be glad to add it to my own collection!

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 13th June 2020, 07:36 PM

I agree with you 100% on all you said Detlef.

francantolin · 13th June 2020, 09:50 PM

Thank You !!

( especially for all precious comments !

)

Kind regards

6th June 2020, 06:46 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Indonesian( ?) short sword Hello everybody, I would like your opinion and knowledge about this item, It's not my area but it seems quite old ( 19th ?) and an authentic tribal piece, maybe indonesian ? it was sold as a sword but I find its quite small, 53cm / less than 21 inches long more a machete ?!? The hilt is made of wood maybe of horn with silver inserts ( and silver on the scabbard ? ) There is I think a missing piece at the end of the hilt. Glad if you help to fix it Kind regards Attached Images

11th June 2020, 05:27 PM	#11
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Hello, Here some pics of the scabbard-blade, ( Not fast, time to receive it + problems with my login ) I see what you mean, sure it's not the same style but it fits pretty good in I have a second one and if I try to put it in the second scabbard it don't fit at all even if this blade is smaller... Attached Images

11th June 2020, 05:33 PM	#12
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	And the second kalasan ( now I know ! Still thank you Sajen !!! ) Nice hilt, sold as wood but clearly light horn. A ( nice ) classical model ?? Kind regards Attached Images

11th June 2020, 07:31 PM	#16
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	Another Kalasan, horn grip, Aceh style. tight well fitted scabbard that matches the sword. 24in. blade. Attached Images

11th June 2020, 07:46 PM	#18
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Here the file work at my andar-andar, the example in down. Attached Images

6th June 2020, 06:54 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello, It's a Karo Batak kalasan! The missing piece at the handle would be a silver sheet. Nice piece with an unusual handle. Regards, Detlef

6th June 2020, 08:33 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Hello, Thank you for fix it ! Do you think the hilt is a later replacement ? It seems horn but can be hard exotic wood

6th June 2020, 09:03 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 478	From what I can tell the Batak are mainly Christian/Muslim, yet the choil seems to be a shiva linga to me. Is there any more knowledgeable member out there able to amend my ignorance? Sorry for the pun.

7th June 2020, 12:54 PM	#9
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Detlef, The hilt and scabbard are very different in style and craftmanship. So I think the handle was added later. Which is not a bad thing persé. @ Francantolin, do you have a picture of the kalasan in the sheet, to see how the handle connects with the scabbard ? Best regards, Willem

11th June 2020, 06:59 PM	#14
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Really nice items !! How long is the bigger ? ( mine 60cm-23,6 inches long ) I find my ''second one'' looks like the last on your picture. I have to clean ( not to much ) the silver parts make it a little more shiny like yours

12th June 2020, 10:46 PM	#21
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Thank you for the informative picture with the differents models, So what do you think of my first model ? original piece looking like the number four with Tanke djembe hilt or a composite weapon with his all silver covered hilt and his matching scabbard with really different decorations/patterns ? Kind regards

13th June 2020, 07:36 PM	#23
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I agree with you 100% on all you said Detlef.

13th June 2020, 09:50 PM	#24
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Thank You !! ( especially for all precious comments ! ) Kind regards