New Kilij: need opinions and translation

[M.carter]

It does look like Syrian to me, especially the scabbard, and the style of the koftegari.

[Valjhun]

Further, it is rather a shamshir that a kilij (SenSei forgive me my insolence)

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Further, it is rather a shamshir that a kilij (SenSei forgive me my insolence)

I guess we still should call it Kilij: it is Turkish-influenced and not Persian. The curve is not Shamshir-ish, early Kilijes nad no yelman etc.
Any objections?

[ariel]

I am being impolite and putting this thread up on the top: perhaps somebody will pay attention and translate the inscription. Please?

[Yannis]

Dear Ariel, I will play devil's advocate

If it has no back edge close to tip, it is shamshir not kilij.

I am looking it again and again and I have a strange feeling. It has all the pieces of an old shamshir but also something is not quite “right”. I am possibly having nightmares and maybe I sound rude but…

a. The side opening of the wood up on the throat looks wrong. It should be wider.
b. The guard is broken in wrong place. Maybe it is upside down?
c. The two fittings with the rings look different of the other fittings, more “cheap” (later?). I cannot imagine anyone to trust these things in a furious horse riding.

My conclusion is that it is an old shamshir that it was wrongly restored and “upgraded” sometime in the last 50 years. Where? Two countries come to my mind Syria and Bulgaria, the later because of the copper used.

I wish to hear that I am totally wrong.

[ariel]

Yannis,
The wood is very, very old and dry. this is why the opening is so narrow. It needs to be replaced.
The small fittings are different from the rest, although they also look old and worn. The big fittings are very professionally repoussed whereas the small are chased.
The guard is old. The reason it does not fit perfectly is the crumbled "cement" within it, and the direction is correct. I shall clean it and reposition properly.
Overall, there is no doubt in my mind this is old and was not recently renovated. Old repairs? Sure, why not.
The idea of Bulgarian origin is interesting and did not occur to me. May just be the case.
As to the name... Turks call their swords Kilij, Iranians call them Shamshir.A Turkish sword with Shamshir blade was called Ajem Kilij, and one with a wavy blade Atesh Kilij.
Obviously, this is neither. And it is not Turkish, as we agree. It was fashioned in the Ottoman style but with a local blade. God only knows what the locals called it. I use the word Kilij for convenience, because shamshir implies a very special form of the blade which is not the case.

[ham]

Gentlemen,

Yannis' observations are astute.
There is an entire group of late 19th and 20th century swords which were made in the bazaar such as this one-- probably they were worn by rich townies- merchants, etc.-- for weddings as is still done in the Arab states.
It is to this group which the sword belongs. The blade may or may not be tempered, judging from the nick I would say not. Too, the style of the koftgari is characteristic of more recent work, c. 1920s.
Nice example of a style which endures to the present.

Sincerely,

Ham

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by Yannis

c. The two fittings with the rings look different of the other fittings, more “cheap” (later?). I cannot imagine anyone to trust these things in a furious horse riding.

All the scabbard fittings, save the leather and wood, seem to be recent, low quality replacements.