Handgonne or not ?

Via Dixiane · 8th June 2019, 02:22 PM

Hi !

on top of being a collector i do quite a lot of metal detecting in the south of France.

A few days ago i found what i think to be a "handgonne". I found it not far from a ruined tower and a small spanish church in the vicinity of Perpignan in the south of France. The spot is a strategic hilltop in a region where the kingdom of France and the Kingdom of spain fought over centuries.

When i cleaned it, it was packed with remains of black powder. But i can not find a "touch hole".

I read somewhere that some kind of early handgonne had no touch hole and were ignited by the front end of the barrel .

thanks for sharing your knowledge

fernando · 8th June 2019, 02:39 PM

Welcome to the forum, Via Dixiane

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I have re-uploaded your images using the forum attachment features and moved your thread to the European section, where members should come around to comment on your curious item.

BUCC_Guy · 9th June 2019, 12:54 AM

Certainly too small for a handgonne, but not too small to be a signal mortar.

BUCC_Guy · 9th June 2019, 12:59 AM

Does the bottom have any kind of socket, or what remains of such?

Can’t edit my prior post... it takes a while to show up.

fernando · 9th June 2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUCC_Guy

Can’t edit my prior post... it takes a while to show up.

Be patient Guy. This is why you are not yet a regular member. Due to forum safety (spam) protocol, beginners posts wait in moderating status, before being validated.

fernando · 9th June 2019, 03:37 PM

Via, i confess it is new to me that early gonnes might not have a touch hole.
Still this is a mysterious piece. Can you take a picture of it, but not inclined, you know, featuring its actual front look? and give us its measurements (height, width and bore) ?

Pukka Bundook · 9th June 2019, 03:52 PM

To me, it looks like a breech from an early breech-loader, but why no touchhole I cannot say, unless it is filled with rust and hidden....

Best regards,
Richard.

fernando · 9th June 2019, 04:19 PM

A rather reasonable guess, Richard.
But then, a couple things to figure out ...
- Lack of a handle; could it have fallen with time ?
- Its conical format; aren't loading chambers more cylindrical, only tapering in their very end to couple (seal) with the barrel ?
Judging by its outer condition, it sure looks rather early. The bore opening looks perfect, though.
Let us see if a straight front picture and its dimensions enlighten us a bit further.

Via Dixiane · 9th June 2019, 08:28 PM

Hi everyone and thanks a lot for your interest.

No socket
240 gr
50 mm length
33 mm diameter
15 mm caliber

Should mention that the spot is also a 1793 battle field

fernando · 10th June 2019, 01:41 PM

Amazing; i have seen quite a number of these things, also have a few in my little collection but, this one seems to be atypical, so to say. So small in size and with so small bore for a signal or celebration 'banger'.
Honestly, i wouldn't know what to make of it ... but hopefully other members will.
By the way Via, isn't that a touch hole ? It certainly looks like one

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9th June 2019, 08:28 PM	#9
Via Dixiane Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 7	Hi everyone and thanks a lot for your interest. No socket 240 gr 50 mm length 33 mm diameter 15 mm caliber Should mention that the spot is also a 1793 battle field Attached Images

10th June 2019, 01:41 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Amazing; i have seen quite a number of these things, also have a few in my little collection but, this one seems to be atypical, so to say. So small in size and with so small bore for a signal or celebration 'banger'. Honestly, i wouldn't know what to make of it ... but hopefully other members will. By the way Via, isn't that a touch hole ? It certainly looks like one . . Attached Images

8th June 2019, 02:39 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum, Via Dixiane . I have re-uploaded your images using the forum attachment features and moved your thread to the European section, where members should come around to comment on your curious item.

9th June 2019, 12:54 AM	#3
BUCC_Guy Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 52	Certainly too small for a handgonne, but not too small to be a signal mortar.

9th June 2019, 12:59 AM	#4
BUCC_Guy Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 52	Does the bottom have any kind of socket, or what remains of such? Can’t edit my prior post... it takes a while to show up.

9th June 2019, 03:37 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Via, i confess it is new to me that early gonnes might not have a touch hole. Still this is a mysterious piece. Can you take a picture of it, but not inclined, you know, featuring its actual front look? and give us its measurements (height, width and bore) ?

9th June 2019, 03:52 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	To me, it looks like a breech from an early breech-loader, but why no touchhole I cannot say, unless it is filled with rust and hidden.... Best regards, Richard.

9th June 2019, 04:19 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A rather reasonable guess, Richard. But then, a couple things to figure out ... - Lack of a handle; could it have fallen with time ? - Its conical format; aren't loading chambers more cylindrical, only tapering in their very end to couple (seal) with the barrel ? Judging by its outer condition, it sure looks rather early. The bore opening looks perfect, though. Let us see if a straight front picture and its dimensions enlighten us a bit further.