Swiss Sword

[kronckew]

Picked up this Swiss sword, always admired the Swiss, and I have a German aunt & Swiss uncle there. Säbel für unberittene Offiziere. (sabre for unmounted officers).

Any Idea how old? Solingen blade, Pipe back, quill point. Few dings on the scabbard.

Pipe backs are not too good for cutting, but look cool, always liked the raised 'yelman' look on the back of the quill point ones, this is my first. Have an Italian Mounted artillery officer's sword with a pipe back spine but no 'yelman'.

Anyone know how to remove the dents?
Thanks for any info you can provide.

[MForde]

I've heard of a variety of strange techniques for removing the dents (filling the scabbard with sand, for instance) but I've never had a go myself. The 'normal' way was to use a metal mandrel shaped specifically for the scabbard type which slides inside allowing the use of a hammer on the outside to work on the dent.

[kronckew]

Ah,well. I am mandrell free, thanks anyway.

[Will M]

I have 3 mandrels, previous Wilkinson's I picked up without knowing what they fit. I found that if not the exact one that they will not work very well.
You will need a specific mandrel. The cost of reproducing one would be prohibitive, best to enjoy the sword as is unless you have deep pockets.
I have attempted using pieces of steel but inevitably the dents that remain are a tell tale that someone stuck something down them.

[drac2k]

Very nice sword; I am also a fan of Quill Back swords and bayonets.
In regards to the dents on the scabbards, I have been told by more than a few collectors that this was done on purpose to keep the sword from rattling or even from falling out on a loose fit. I have also been told that one can remove the dents by filling the scabbard with water and freezing it, however, I have never tried this myself.

[kronckew]

Someone has recommended using brown unpolished organic rice, poured down the scabbard, then soaked in water. the rice swells and pushes out dents in hard to reach objects like this. You wash out the rice with a hose or pressure washer when it is where you want it (and before it pops the seams* ).

The rice husks keep the rice from sticking together and becoming a sticky compressed block of rice epoxy. (the great wall was made with over-boiled rice paste as mortar & it's is still there, rice glue is quite common I hear in the orient, so using sticky rice is not a good idea). I am a bit reluctant to use these methods.

The deliberate anti-rattle device sounds good to me.

*- I recall reading about a wood hulled sailing cargo ship with a cargo of rice where they sprung a leak & did not realise it, they faithfully used a sounding rod to measure any water in the bilges each watch, and it didn't show any. The rice absorbed all the water, then suddenly burst he hull and it sank in a few minutes.

[corrado26]

The main reason for this dents is that the sabre when worn very often got into contact with shutting doors! Filling with water and freeze it might be the best solution to even the dents because it is easily to be removed
corrado26

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The main reason for this dents is that the sabre when worn very often got into contact with shutting doors! Filling with water and freeze it might be the best solution to even the dents because it is easily to be removed
corrado26

Might try that next winter when I'll have a large freezer to put it in. (called Outside )

Dogs have a similar problem with their tails and those hydraulic door mechanisms at the top that closes slowly till the last few inches when it slams. I have to be careful to let my dog go thru first

[kronckew]

Sword arrived, needs a bit of a clean. the scabbard "dents" do look deliberate, evenly spaced roughly 45 degrees on either side, done so they would form an X, crossing each other instead of being // which i'd expect if it was run over. Sword fits nicely with very little effort, doesn't rattle. Sword has been sharpened, mostly dull now tho.

[Victrix]

You would imagine that the Swiss of all people would have invented an anti-rattle device so they wouldn’t have to disfigure the scabbard

[ausjulius]

this is a little bit of an old discussion but im sure its as valid today as when it was started..
ther eis only one way to remove dents in sword and bayonet scabbards.. its with a steel STEEL mandrel.. sticking wood in the scabbard would end up with it getting stuck ..

the armourers had many mandrel forms for the scabbards and for different sections of a scabbard.
no frozen water or rice or sand will remove anything from a steel scabbard.

doing this will just waste your time or damage it more.
ive neevr seen anyone remove dents on a trumpet with frozen water.. seems unlikely to work unless its a very shallow dent on a very thin area inwhich case some dry ice and a cloth can do it too.. like on a car bonnet..

dents in brass in struments are removed with a clomplex extencive set of mandrels and things claled dent balls that are attached on a flexable cable and plulled through the instrument ... a repairman has maybe 100 dentballs alone and probably 100 or more different mandrels and many specialised tools

the dents on the scabbard are not made by some swiss office trying to remove "rattling" this just not logical.
he would be phisically BROKEN IN TWO for even intentionally putting his intiials on the scabbard.. let alone a huge dent like this. the belting you would have faced would have been extreme. even in todays military if your kits inspected and there is something showing signs of vandalisim your in for it .

the scabbard if damaged during service would be sent to the armourer and have the dents removed or a new scabbard procured and the dented scabbard reparied and put in storage.

dents on scabbards are from 3 things.. combat.. i.e. ww1 bayonet scabbards with big dents .. impacts from fragments.. ect.

from post military service damage.. i.e. falling down on the ground at a show.. being tossed about rudely.. being crushed under a pallet or crate.. like whats probably happened to this sabre.

and 3.. retards intentionally belting them on things. using the scabbard as another sword and belting the two togeather...

ushally the handywork of the worst kind of spastic destructive kids. the type that pull cats tails for a laugh or smash grannys delft collection and say it fell down because a truck went by but when caught they say it was their friend who went home early and slither out of it.. only to offend later on with this here sword scabbard haha .

ive seen as many idotic adults do it too (grownup versions of those destructive kids i guess) .. "Dis kaTaNA loOks LiKE It CouLD cHoP woOd!... chop chop SNAP! TWANG! stupid japs dont know how to make nuffin!"

so somebody mindlessly animalistically belting such a scabbard with all their force against a metal railing or a tree or somethign and saying "why wont IT cut!?" seems the most logical cause of damage most of the time unfortunatly.


the best method is as you cant make a full mandrel or a larger mandrel or full sized mandrel .. is make a small mandrel 2 inch long or so maybe so it can pass the curves and chamfor its edges nicely .. polish it well and lube it up.. then weld it on a stout rod and depending where the dents are curve the rod to the curve of the sheath as it goes in you can then attempt to push the dents out this will take the most of them out.
you might need a rubber mallet to to pus the mkandrel in and then hanmer the section around a sandbag carefully if there is some outward deformity and your mandrel just dosnt get the wrinkles out.

[kronckew]

Thanks for that additional advice.


I've learned to live with my dents.



And those on my sword scabbards.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Thanks for that additional advice.


I've learned to live with my dents.



And those on my sword scabbards.

ah all good.. but if you do decide to take them out for example if you have several of the same model of sword with dents making a small mandrel to take them out isnt had.. getting it as nice as new is a different story.