Small Padsumbalin Panabas

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

May I ask which ones?

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

The one near the tip. Seems like a beak or something.

Regarding edge-on-edge contact, it's mortal sin for BangsaMoros- especially the Tausug- for their blades to clash with another's. While I know everything will be chaos, I'm inclined to believe that edge-on-edge contact rarely happened during Moro battles. Moro Fighting Arts has a different mode of entry with weapons than the usual entry of European or FMA styles which greatly minimizes edge-on-edge contact.

That being said, I'm now 50/50 with regard to whether this was designed to be a weapon or not. If ever it was, it must have been a highly experimental one.

[Sajen]

Regarding nicks in a edge, here are pictures from a Mindanao kris in my collection which has several nicks in the edges. From what they shall originate when not from edge to edge contact? Only a sharp and hard edge would be possible to let such a damage in a fighting blade IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Regarding nicks in a edge, here are pictures from a Mindanao kris in my collection which has several nicks in the edges. From what they shall originate when not from edge to edge contact? Only a sharp and hard edge would be possible to let such a damage in a fighting blade IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef, the following possibilities come to mind with regard to your kris:

1. It may have been used by one from the non-Muslim tribes.. This has happened quite often in the past, especially with the BangsaMoro's open trading policy with some of the Mindanao tribes like the Bagobo and T'boli. There have been many instances when kris (usually the straight ones) were even re-hilted with the non-Muslim tribes' signature hilt, an indication that it was traded in or sold to the tribesmen.

2. It may have been a captured piece and used by a non-Mindanaon (or even non-Filipino) elsewhere in the war.

3. Quite unlikely, but it may have been kept in a weapons locker on a bumpy transpo ride and gotten the nicks from other blades. This has happened to at least one antique blade which was previously in my possession.

I can't emphasize enough how the BangsaMoro frown on edge-to-edge contact. They regard their blades not only as weapons but as cultural artifacts of the highest order; if I remember correctly, my MFA instructor even said that direct blade work / non-blocking / non-blade-to-blade contact was ingrained to them as deeply as their aversion to pork.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by xasterix

I can't emphasize enough how the BangsaMoro frown on edge-to-edge contact. They regard their blades not only as weapons but as cultural artifacts of the highest order; if I remember correctly, my MFA instructor even said that direct blade work / non-blocking / non-blade-to-blade contact was ingrained to them as deeply as their aversion to pork.

Hi Xas,

I am sure that you are correct. But what will happen when a Moro have to fight against a man from an other culture? Before someone will get hidden from a blade to his body he will block the blow with his blade, I would do without any question, equal what I've learned!

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

I am sure that you are correct. But what will happen when a Moro have to fight against a man from an other culture? Before someone will get hidden from a blade to his body he will block the blow with his blade, I would do without any question, equal what I've learned!

Hi Detlef,

Not sure about that, as there are no weapon blocks in the MFA styles I've seen and heard of. The only allowable blocks I know of are arm, scabbard, and shield. Regarding fighting, I was trained not to approach enemies on a straight line of attack...that's why it's not likely that the Moro would need to block an opponent's blow. They go beyond the center line, under the opponent's attack, or are suddenly out of reach due to positioning.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Detlef,

Not sure about that, as there are no weapon blocks in the MFA styles I've seen and heard of. The only allowable blocks I know of are arm, scabbard, and shield. Regarding fighting, I was trained not to approach enemies on a straight line of attack...that's why it's not likely that the Moro would need to block an opponent's blow. They go beyond the center line, under the opponent's attack, or are suddenly out of reach due to positioning.

Hi Xas,

I don't want to say that MFA is nonsense but I really doubt that in a real battle man against man where it going about life or death it will be possible to avoid blade to blade contact. And the before shown kris with several nicks in the edges isn't the only one I own with nicks, several other Moro blades I own show these nicks in the edges and I really doubt that this coming from children who have "played" with it or that it coming from transport with other blades nor that them get used before from other tribes.
A blade is used primarily to kill or injure the combatant and the fighters will do everything not to get killed or injured and I strongly doubt that a blade to blade contact is to avoid in this case, just my humble opinion.

Regards,
Detlef

[mross]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

I don't want to say that MFA is nonsense but I really doubt that in a real battle man against man where it going about life or death it will be possible to avoid blade to blade contact. And the before shown kris with several nicks in the edges isn't the only one I own with nicks, several other Moro blades I own show these nicks in the edges and I really doubt that this coming from children who have "played" with it or that it coming from transport with other blades nor that them get used before from other tribes.
A blade is used primarily to kill or injure the combatant and the fighters will do everything not to get killed or injured and I strongly doubt that a blade to blade contact is to avoid in this case, just my humble opinion.

Regards,
Detlef

In answer to one of your questions. Training and practice is how edge on edge was avoided. In battle, flow takes over so you do what you are trained to do. Comes down to; Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. As to weapon on weapon contact, sure happened all the time. However if you where parrying and attack, you took the edge on the flat of your bald NOT the edge. If you think about it, it makes sense, you do not damage your weapon and you are immediately set up for a counter attack. You will find this in just about every culture that used edged weapons in real combat. In regards to the arts coming out of the Philippines, they are the closest arts to real warring arts you will find (depending of course if the instructor is willing to teach you) that you will find. Just about everything else is watered down.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Detlef,

The one near the tip. Seems like a beak or something.

Regarding edge-on-edge contact, it's mortal sin for BangsaMoros- especially the Tausug- for their blades to clash with another's. While I know everything will be chaos, I'm inclined to believe that edge-on-edge contact rarely happened during Moro battles. Moro Fighting Arts has a different mode of entry with weapons than the usual entry of European or FMA styles which greatly minimizes edge-on-edge contact.

That being said, I'm now 50/50 with regard to whether this was designed to be a weapon or not. If ever it was, it must have been a highly experimental one.

I've meant which other thoughts?