Maranao Datu? Kris

[zelbone]

Refitting an old Moro blade is not uncommon since the blade is the heart of any sword. If the blade is really well made, it should outlast several dress changes. The dress on Dan's kris is well executed and not grossly overdone. I've seen some of those overdone krises (usually made for the tourist market) that are too gaudy to be considered serious weapons. I tend to agree with Rick that the redress of this sword was probably done around 50 years ago. More recent work tends to be gaudier and lower craftsmanship. It's still a nicely done sword. Good catch, Dan!

Now...are you going to tell us about that barong you're holding in the picture?

[Federico]

While traditional in use re-fitting is not un-heard of, I am suspicious of this piece being done older (50 years ago). Particularly due to the heavy attempt to age the fittings, blue glue (I just dont think blue glue would stay blue for fifty years, I would see it getting darker from ), and the blackened blade with live rust (generally the blades that get this treatment are in rough shape to highlight the age) and that Ive have seen this plainer fitting motif on newer pieces that I have been told were new. I also have my doubts about this blade being a good candidate for the owner to put such fittings. If it were traditional fittings, he is upgrading a battle blade with datu-esque fittings. Particularly after WWII, I am suspicious. If he is jumping up in rank, during the fifties I can think of other vestiges that would be more common.

I hate to say it, but while over-done pieces are easier to detect, those who try to pass of old as new are getting smarter and are realizing subtler construction is easier to pass off. There have been a number of pieces that Ive seen, and known were modern composites and was surprised at the sophistication they are starting to attain.

[tom hyle]

Again, the focus in discussing re-hilting seems to focus on the concept of deception. Why? The focus in actual re-hilting is usually to provide one where there is none (or a very damaged one). In so doing the craft-man may take into account that a once ordinary item is now a valuable antique, and so its social status has been lifted, and a fancier dress than it would originally have worn may so seem appropriate. He will often use a style contemporary/familiar to himself. He will often try to give it an overall look and surface that matches the piece, rather than "leaping out" as a repair/replacement, so that it looks good, not so much to deceive(and when he doesn't imitate the old style, how serious can his suposed intent to decieve be?). Those who hire one to do repairs on thier noncommercial properties typically request this, BTW. I don't mean to be ethnically insensitive, but it's an education to watch the modern/American mind at work; everything is assumed to be about show and deception. In my opinion this often says more about that culture than about those it tries (usually unsuccessfully, IMHO) to anylize.
I have read that, in addition to smelling bad, social injustice, and cannibalism, differing cultures almost always find each other to be decievers; it seems peoples have different views on what constitutes honesty, and partly because of this (and partly because it's true, of course) tend to consider each other horribly dishonest. This concept has been penetrating my mind, as I try to deal with and comprehend those who suround me in this world.

[wilked aka Khun Deng]

I am sure the redress was done quite some time ago and here's why. I've polished many a sword and this one took three applications to bring out the brilliance. While I agree that the actual setting of the blade may have been earlier than fifty years ago the dress shows definative age and undoubtably usage wear at exactly the points it should, index finger placement (the chasing is almost worn off there) and at heel of the hand. Many bands are seperated and lower ones remain tighly woven. The grime, especially that imbedded in the copper wire wrap, was especially difficult to remove and was not just dirt but oily grime that had set in over time. The ivory was particularrly hard to clean and is still embedded in the three cracks that show (I only showed the best side).

Zelbone, will post the Barung(s) tomorrow.

Andrew, yes I do have some dha for sale - you can bid on them at my funeral after you pry them from my cold dead hands!!!! Your address was where in Florida and you're taking your vacation when?

I have not turned, I've simply EXPANDED I have limited my collection by two criteria either I've worked there or worked with their troops. Hell if I didn't I'd definately go broke especially with all those flambouyant Indian swords I love to look at.

Best to you all and thanks for the input.

[Federico]

Of course, I would not be surprised if the dress was 10 or 20 years old, when I implied newer than 50 years old, I did not mean it was made yesterday, or even the year before.. But I am suspicious when it comes to Manila Antique shops. While I would like to tell myself, oh it is a traditional upgrade of hilts. Ive seen and been told too many stories from "Manila Antique" shops telling me that they have a "Maranao Datu's piece" that "displays all the fine acruitriments of a wealthy persons sword such as ivory or silver or gold", etc... and above all it is all original. In this case the upgrade of hilts was not to repair a good ol piece that was missing a hilt, but an intentional upgrade to turn a common persons kris that would sell for a lower price, into a "Datu's" kris at a much higher price. Which is why I am interested in what the seller had to say. If he is open about it being a composite, then I am more inclined to believe I am being overly paranoid, but if instead he gives a lovely story about an original piece then I become much more skeptical about the "traditional" repair. Also, pusaka pieces are not lightly given in Moroland today. If indeed it was a traditional re-do, and the owner hit hard times, the owner would do his best to keep the blade. Moro royalty, the only ones for whom such a re-build would be proper (the jump in stature for a commoner, even a rich commoner would be a very bad slip in social etiquite) are very much aware of how their ancestors were robbed of fine pieces on the field of battle, and many if not all are very protective of what few cultural heirlooms they have left. Which leads to then, why get rid of such a fine piece, after taking so much time and money to get it re-done so well, when there would at least be a few options around it? Now of course we can get into the role of the MNLF fighting in the 70s, a time when many fighters did sell pieces in dire straights, but stuff sold in this period, since the MNLF was largely a common persons movement, and not overly filled with royalty (many of whom were entrenched in official government) were plainer less guady swords. Now, current groups have other means of raising capital, and straights arent so dire. Which leads us back to why sell the pusaka?

[Spunjer]

well, there's also the possibility of those swords being looted items (by p.i. soldiers) or stolen items. i know manila is notorious for such a thing as you mentioned, but not everyone's crooked over there, bro. there are just too many variables...

[BluErf]

Just an idea -- the assumption that owner of a high status blade would only sell it during hard times -- but what if its a case of the current generation being disinterested in his 'grandfather's dusty old stuff' and have no qualms selling it off to buy a car, rolex or handphone?