Comment?

[Bill M]

Was revisiting some old friends and came across one of my favorites. I remember it was made by Empu Suparman, but my notes are filed away somewhere.

The pamor is striking. Three dimensional metal that looks in relief to the eye but flat to the hand.

I believe the PB is a tribute to Pakubuwono I (also as Pakubuwana). I would be appreciative if someone can help me with the details.

[Rick]

That would be Pakubuwono X, he is still revered in Jawa.
A keris similar to your example with an X pamor pattern also chatoyant.

[Bill M]

Thanks for Pakubuwono X

Beautiful! The X pattern looks familiar. Chatoyant, chiaroscuro.

Looks like the Same Empu as mine.

Enjoying being back on the Forum!

[Rick]

Good to have you back Bill.

[David]

I can't remember what the "X" pattern made in the pamor is called. Here is my example of it though.

[A. G. Maisey]

Bill, I believe you bought this keris from me in about 2002-2003. I definitely did not attribute this keris to Empu Suparman.

In fact Empu Suparman never made commercially, he made for members of the Surakarta Karaton hierarchy and for other dignitaries, he did not charge for his work but gifted his keris, and those to whom he gave his work reciprocated in turn, with a gift, sometimes with an item of value, sometimes with a service, occasionally with money. The gift always came later, so that it would never be seen as associated with his gift to the person to whom he gave the keris.

The wilah that forms a part of this complete keris is definitely a Surakarta production. This nginden type of pamor is primarily associated with Empu Jayasukadgo who worked as a Karaton Empu around the beginning of the 20th century, other empus and pandes copied his style, and this style of nginden pamor can be found in keris through to the late 1930's, and also in the work of the new generation Surakarta makers. This keris wilah could be from the late pre-WWII period, or from the 1980's, I doubt that it is any earlier, or any later than these periods.

Just as we cannot attribute this keris to Empu Suparman, we also cannot attribute it to Empu Jayasukadgo, the reason being that Jayasukadgo's work is well known and keris like this that could be attributed to Jayasukadgo would cost well into 5 figures in $US. Think in terms a brand new, good quality motor car. Very few keris collectors in the western world are prepared to pay the prices for which the highest level keris change hands in Indonesia, and Empu Jayasukadgo's work is ranked as Level One.

In any case, it is an exceptionally fine keris, and for the last perhaps 20 years I have not seen, nor been able to purchase anything as fine as this.

In respect of the dress.
This dress is all current era, post 1980.
The wrongko is gembol jati (burl teak) of a very high grade, the wrongko was probably made by Mas Agus Irianto, arguably the finest Surakarta tukang wrongko of the Indonesian keris revival period.

The pendok will be silver, probably .925, and is easily recognisable as the work of Mas Dayadi, who was the most highly regarded tukang pendok in Jawa up until the time of his untimely death perhaps 15 or more years ago. Nobody working today can come even remotely close to the quality of the items that were produced by these two craftsmen.

The use of the "PB" emblem is, as you say, a tribute to the Susuhunan of Surakarta whose title is normally abbreviated to "Pakubuwana" (pron. "Pakubuwono", the "A's" that have become "O's" should be written with a diacritic ring above them, but this is not possible on my keyboard, or most other keyboards, so we just need to learn when to pronounce "A" as "A" or "A" as "O", actually similar to the "o" in "oar"). When the emblem is "PBX" it is specific to Pakubuwana X (10th.), who was the Susuhunan of Surakarta from 1893 to 1939, and is a bit of a cult figure in Surakarta..

The jejeran could be the work of a number of people, if I had it in hand I might be able to identify the maker, but I cannot from a photo. From the profile, it looks like the work of Mas Wakidjo, of Jagolan, who was a Karaton deignated tukang jejeran, but I cannot be certain of this. The material is gembol jati.

The mendak is a stock fitting, middle high quality, probably silver and yakut. Maker unknown.

I do hope that these few comments will help to refresh your memory Bill. I regret that I do not have a record of this transaction, but I had a few keris of this quality back around 20 years ago, and I can recall most of them, simply because of their exquisite quality. In fact, I still have a couple as a part of my personal collection, as well as one Jayasukadgo tombak kinatah.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, the "X" motif is called "PBX", the reflective pamor style is called "nginden" or in English "chatoyant" , so a correct designation would be "Pamor PBX nginden".

[kai]

Thanks for the infos, Alan! There certainly are some differences in quality visible from the pics.

Welcome back, Bill! BTW, PM sent.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, the "X" motif is called "PBX", the reflective pamor style is called "nginden" or in English "chatoyant" , so a correct designation would be "Pamor PBX nginden".

Thanks Alan. Books and notes are still packed in boxes.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Bill, I believe you bought this keris from me in about 2002-2003. I definitely did not attribute this keris to Empu Suparman.

et al.....

Mea culpa, peccāvimus... I dimly remember your mentioning Suparman, but....

As mentioned time has dimmed a few recollections. But the pieces from you are bright shining examples that I still appreciate their beauty. It is still a spine tingling adventure to hold one quietly, and look for the man in it. Don't think I ever figured that out, but I keep trying.

The words escape me as to details, words, descriptions, have always eluded me, but Beauty! Power! Quality! Craftsmanship! Now these I still connect!!

Also thank you for your wonderful descriptions. Yes I did acquire this from you a few years back, along with several others from the same source.

I have all the keris from you and enjoy them from time to time,

Here are a couple of others from you.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Bill, I do not doubt that I mentioned Empu Suparman(Alm.) he was the ranking Mpu in the Karaton Surakarta during the 1980's and early 1990's, and he was my teacher for the last 15 years of his life. Without his help I would not now know a fraction of what I do know.

Yes, I recall the bethok very clearly. Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo (Alm.) made three of these keris, and I bought all three, they were amongst the last keris he made before he became too ill to work. The pamor is an experimental one that he named "Pamor Kalpataru" . The Kalpataru Tree in Hindu belief is a sacred, wish granting tree, but in Javanese belief it is aligned with the Gunungan, Mt. Meru, and the Tree of Life. So, when Pauzan named this pamor Kalpataru he was in fact referencing the alignment of the Keris with Mt. Meru. I sold one of these keris to you, I sold one to another very respected collector, and I kept one for myself.

The other keris I do not remember, but it has the look of Pauzan's work. After Pauzan ceased work I bought all his unsold keris and sold most of them over about a 20 year period. This keris definitely does look like his work but I cannot remember it. The wrongko looks like Sutejo's work, the pendok I am virtually certain is Dayadi's work, but I would need to handle it to be certain, it is almost certainly .925 silver --- this class of work is not done in brass --- the jejeran is from either Sutejo or Suroso. All this dress is absolute top drawer, and the blade is classic Surakarta.

I knew Pauzan from 1974 until the time of his passing. He was one of the finest men I have ever known, kind, and gentle to a fault, the very epitome of a gentleman, I was fortunate to count him as a good friend.

[Jean]

I also appreciate the fineness of this type of bright nginden/ chatoyant pamor covering most of the surface of the blade and often found on contemporary krisses.
However I find that these pamor patterns look "busy" because they include much less iron than the conventional ones and are "floating" (not deeply embedded) into the blade core (see the 5th pic down from Bill for instance). Personally I prefer the older blades with more subtle pamor patterns with more apparent iron and better mixing into the blade core.
Regards

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Jean

I also appreciate the fineness of this type of bright nginden/ chatoyant pamor covering most of the surface of the blade and often found on contemporary krisses.
However I find that these pamor patterns look "busy" because they include much less iron than the conventional ones and are "floating" (not deeply embedded) into the blade core (see the 5th pic down from Bill for instance). Personally I prefer the older blades with more subtle pamor patterns with more apparent iron and better mixing into the blade core.
Regards

Post one of yours so we can comment. I have many keris blades also.

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, what you are talking about here is the difference between eras, the effect of time, and differences in post production processing. It is simply a matter of preferences.

In very simple terms, we cannot have a blade that was made only 30 or 40 years ago, or even within the last 100 years or so, that looks like a blade that was made 150 to 200 years ago. It was be very nice if we could get newly made blades that looked like 19th century Surakarta or late Mataram, but regrettably we cannot. The reason being, that the current local Indonesian buyers seem to prefer blades that look like Bill's keris, rather than ones with a Bali style finish --- and it is the Bali style finish that is required in the beginning in order to have that flat mature surface a couple of hundred years down the track.

The effect in that 5th pic of Bill's is the result of the deep etching process that is required by local Indonesian buyers of these keris. The method of construction of Bill's blade and a late 19th century Surakarta blade is the same, the pamor is not "deeply embedded", nor is there any "mixing into the blade core", the older blades have a less deeply etched surface, and there is a degree of mechanical reduction caused by wear. That is the only difference.

In a blade that has been made using the reverse V construction, what we effectively have is an inlaid edge, and this permits less topographic relief in a blade that has a pure pamor body, but a body such as this is rare, normally there is a very thin layer of pamor over plain iron. It is unusual to find this reverse V construction in blades later than about 1800, and they are pretty scarce.

However, it is possible to get older blades that have the superb pamors of the current era, along with the crisp garap of keris made during this revival era. The problem is that to even get one of these blades offered to you, you need the right connections, and then to actually obtain something, like, say, a Jayasukadgo, you need very deep pockets indeed.

It does help to bring us back to reality if we can examine closely the pre-17th century keris held in some of the old European museum collections. Most of these keris that I have examined were new or close to it when they were collected, and if they were to be stripped of their dress, and laid side by side with an equal number of revival era blades it would be a very perceptive man indeed who could separate the new from the old.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, what you are talking about here is the difference between eras, the effect of time, and differences in post production processing. It is simply a matter of preferences.

In very simple terms, we cannot have a blade that was made only 30 or 40 years ago, or even within the last 100 years or so, that looks like a blade that was made 150 to 200 years ago. It was be very nice if we could get newly made blades that looked like 19th century Surakarta or late Mataram, but regrettably we cannot. .

Hello Alan,
I agree with you, however it seems to me that there are some apparently recent blades without this deep etching process.
The first blade which I am showing is Balinese (or in balinese style) and probably recent, and it shows a full and fine pamor pattern Beras Wutah.
The second blade is estimated to originate from Banten or Blambangan and to date from 17th century and it shows a very fine and intact pamor pattern after warangan as if it was newly made (bottom pic).
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Jean, true, some current era blades are not deeply etched, in fact, some are not etched at all, but local buyers still seem to prefer that deep aggressive etch.

Your couple of examples demonstrate pretty well what I was talking about in my previous post:- old blades and new blades can look very close to the same when presented in similar condition and mixed together.

[Gustav]

Actually Blumbangan of initial Keris doesn't look Mboto Adeg (as it should be with Surakarta Keris), it could be square, in pictures it looks almost Rubuh, perhaps also some strange image deformation (the pictures look really distorted).

Kembang Kacang looks like Madura.

Poyuhan is disturbed.

As the name Jayasukadgo was mentioned (of course, having nothing to do with the initial Keris), attached a picture of a part of Keris which has been attributed to Jayasukadgo.

[A. G. Maisey]

You are correct Gustav, the blumbangan of the current era nginden keris does not appear to be textbook Surakarta, however the only keris that do stay more or less strictly within the parameters of tangguh indicators are those that have been made by a karaton empu for use within a karaton, with all other keris there can be greater or lesser degrees of deviation from the guidelines that provide our indicators. When this deviation is present it becomes a matter of forming an opinion based upon the weight of evidence. "Tangguh" means "opinion".

There is another thing that also needs to be understood in assessing the form of a blumbangan, it is sometimes not really possible to assess form from a photograph, the internal barrier of the blumbangan can vary, depending upon how the palemahan and the bungkul have been carved, so a blumbangan that appears to be one form in a photo, can be different in the hand.

In the case of the keris under discussion the weight of evidence points firmly at Surakarta. Bear in mind, this is a current era keris. In other words it was made by somebody who is still living or has only recently passed away. We know where keris of this type were produced. We know the people who were capable of producing a keris like this. In the applicable period, those who were capable of producing this keris lived in Surakarta. Nowhere else. Just Solo.

Then we have the ron dha. In a young keris this form of ron dha is uniquely Surakarta. Couple the ron dha with the pawakan and you have an inarguable attribution of Surakarta, even without any other indicators being in compliance.

The agreed characteristic of a Madura kembang kacang is that it is whispy, one of the characteristics of a Surakarta kembang kacang is that it is substantial and heavy through its base. The KK on this keris is not at all typical of a Madura KK.

In respect of the work of Jayasukadgo. He was renowned for being able to do anything with pamor, however, he did not only produce keris that bore pamor, for those who could not afford his highest quality work he produced keris with no pamor, and with deviant features.

For the last 40 years I have been the custodian of one of these Jayasukadgo keris that has no pamor and possesses deviant characteristics. I do not own this keris, it is a pusaka keris, the previous family custodians are known, the maker is known. I have been entrusted with the care of this keris until the person who should have it is ready to accept it. Regrettably, although this person is already 50 years old he is still not ready to accept responsibility for his family's keris.

This keris is very definitely a Jayasukadgo, the family knows who made it, it has been recognised as Jayasukadgo by Javanese people who are sufficiently well educated to reliably recognise his work. But although it is a Jayasukadgo, and although it is recognisably Surakarta, it has some characteristics that are not typically Surakarta.

We really do need a very great depth of hands on experience to be able to apply the indicators that we use in classifying a keris.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Gustav

As the name Jayasukadgo was mentioned (of course, having nothing to do with the initial Keris), attached a picture of a part of Keris which has been attributed to Jayasukadgo.

The pamor pattern of this kris looks very similar to te one belonging to Bill?
Regards

[Gustav]

Yes Jean, emerging of certain patterns in certain places is a regularity.

Otherwise there are worlds between these two blades.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The pamor pattern of this kris looks very similar to te one belonging to Bill?
Regards

Jean, i believe you are confused because Gustav actually posted TWO keris as a comparative. The first one IS Bill's keris. The second one is a tighter shot on the one he attributes to Jayasukadgo.

[A. G. Maisey]

I completely agree with you Gustav, the difference between Bill's keris and a Jayasukadgo is comparable to the difference between a Volkswagon Passat and a Mercedes-Benz Maybach Exelero --- and so is the market price.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Jean, i believe you are confused because Gustav actually posted TWO keris as a comparative. The first one IS Bill's keris. The second one is a tighter shot on the one he attributes to Jayasukadgo.

Thank you David, you are correct and sorry for the confusion. It would be nice if Gustav could show us a full pic of the Maybach Exelero
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, possibly Gustav is under some restriction on publication. I have photos, in fact many photos, of keris that when I obtained those photos I was placed under a vow that I would never permit anybody else to look at them, and I, myself, could only look at them on a moonless night with the lights out.

Not everybody appreciates having the world look at the things for which they have responsibility.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, possibly Gustav is under some restriction on publication. I have photos, in fact many photos, of keris that when I obtained those photos I was placed under a vow that I would never permit anybody else to look at them, and I, myself, could only look at them on a moonless night with the lights out.

Not everybody appreciates having the world look at the things for which they have responsibility.

I agree and follow the same personal restrictions.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I agree and follow the same personal restrictions.

I agree provided that:
. The kris is not under my ownership and I have no formal authorization from the owner to show it.
. Or the kris is really too valuable (or for another valid reason) to be openly displayed.
But I believe that if you start showing part of it, it is not fair not to show it fully as it is frustrating for the other members.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

But I believe that if you start showing part of it, it is not fair not to show it fully as it is frustrating for the other members.

Jean, i'm sure such small moments of frustration will quickly pass for the unfulfilled. But i would never mandate that any member need show any more or less of any keris they have under their custody than they are willing to show, no matter what their reasoning. I would like to thank Gustav for showing us as much of the blade as he felt he could. It is telling of the craft of such a blade that it can make itself understood viewing only this much of the blade.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Jean, i'm sure such small moments of frustration will quickly pass for the unfulfilled. But i would never mandate that any member need show any more or less of any keris they have under their custody than they are willing to show, no matter what their reasoning. I would like to thank Gustav for showing us as much of the blade as he felt he could. It is telling of the craft of such a blade that it can make itself understood viewing only this much of the blade.

Thank you David, and I understand your point although it is not my philosophy.
I take this opportunity to inform the members that I will soon publish a new book about kris hilts showing about 250 pieces, those of you who are interested to get a copy can PM me in order to better estimate how many I should print.
Regards

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Jean

Thank you David, and I understand your point although it is not my philosophy.
I take this opportunity to inform the members that I will soon publish a new book about kris hilts showing about 250 pieces, those of you who are interested to get a copy can PM me in order to better estimate how many I should print.
Regards

I am interested Jean

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I am interested Jean

I am also interested in keris hilts. I think posting these do not violate the privacy of the keris as the hilts are often shown when a keris is worn by its owner so the Public can see that part.

On many of my keris the greneng can be different than the pamor so that the pamor of the blade is not visible by the public. Here is one of my Balinese.
I guess that showing the overall dress is appropriate.