Osborn's G Stamp

Bryce · 18th July 2018, 03:12 AM

G'day Guys,

Thank you GC for posting the G stamped sword above.

Here is another G stamped Osborn and Gunby marked blade. This one also has the sans serif G. I am yet to come across an Osborn and Gunby marked sword which has the G stamp with "serifs".

Cheers,

Bryce

Bryce · 8th January 2019, 11:18 PM

G'day Guys,

Came across this Osborn and Gunby marked sword at the Royal Armouries (Object IX.354). There are good photos showing the ricasso on both sides of the blade. There are no G stamps on the blade, so this supports the theory that Osborn and Gunby stopped using the G stamp at some stage. Unfortunately this sword has no features we can use to narrow down the date of manufacture.

Cheers,
Bryce

Jim McDougall · 9th January 2019, 11:32 PM

Hi Bryce,
Thank you for keeping us up to date on this topic! This is an interesting example of the M1796 officers sword, which I think was used for some time even beyond the 1822 patterns as it was entirely a dress sword. It seems I read somewhere that British officers hated these for use on campaign.

The Osborn & Gunby inscription and motif and absence of the forte letter stamp we have been discussing is most interesting. It seems that Mowbray had suggested as partners (1808) the use of a GG was used instead of the O or Ob formerly used.

Without really having a better idea of what these letters stamped at the forte actually meant it is hard to really say if a blade without them can be placed in a certain time frame. At one point it seems it was suggested that these letters may have been indicating a blade or sword for export to America. If that was the case, perhaps this was simply one that was for British use?

Bryce · 10th January 2019, 04:27 AM

G'day Jim,

All Osborn marked officers' swords have either a G or GG stamp. Most Osborn and Gunby swords have either a G or GG stamp, so the GG stamp does not differentiate Osborn and Gunby made swords from those made solely by Osborn. I have never come across an Osborn marked sword with an O or Ob stamp. What does differentiate Osborn swords from those made by Osborn and Gunby is the font of the G stamp. Osborn and Gunby made swords have a sans serif G stamp. There is also no correlation with swords made for export to America with the presence or absence of a G stamp. If enough dated Osborn and Gunby officers' swords could be examined, I am sure we would find that past a certain date, Osborn and Gunby stopped using the G stamp.

Cheers,

Bryce

Jim McDougall · 10th January 2019, 05:18 AM

Thanks very much Bryce! That insight explains a lot, and I know you've done extensive research on this topic and with these swords so I will definitely amend my notes.
All the best
Jim

Bryce · 12th April 2020, 11:31 PM

G'day Guys,
Just a quick update on my latest research on Osborn's G stamp. I have looked at many more blades and it is still true that all Osborn marked officers' swords and virtually all Osborn and Gunby marked officers' swords are stamped G or GG.

There is an interesting sword coming up for auction at Morphy Auctions in America. It is an American silver hilted spadroon with a blade marked to R Bolton and Co with a G stamp. The hilt has the Birmingham silver marks for 1805.

I have never come across a British sword marked to Bolton, so it seems that if Bolton made sword blades, he only did so for the American market which would be odd! A look thru the Birmingham trade directories for this period reveals the following results:

There was an RP Bolton, Gunsmith who pops up from time to time around this period.
There was a JH Bolton, Gun maker and occasional cutler consistently around this period
There was a Richard Bolton and Co, Merchant consistently thru this period.

Based on this and the absence of British marked Bolton swords the most likely explanation is that the R Bolton and Co marked American swords were put together using Osborn sword blades and exported to America by R Bolton and Co the merchants. I am unsure if Bolton and Co used Osborn blades exclusively or sourced them from several makers. If Bolton marked swords without a G stamp exist it means that Bolton and Co sourced blades from several makers.

This particular G stamp looks to be somewhere in Between the earlier Osborn G stamp with serifs and the later Osborn and Gunby G stamp sans serif. I don't know if the change in G stamp was intentional or just came about by the older G stamp tools wearing out around the time of the change from Osborn to Osborn and Gunby.

Cheers,
Bryce

Hotspur · 14th April 2020, 01:42 AM

More likely, the blade itself may have come from Osborn. In post #10 of this thread, I attached a series of images with a blade with a G and the eagle type known to be Bolton's. There are also some other distinctive etching that can be seen from more than one "producer".

Then in post #25, a sword not marked to Osborn with a G marked blade.

If I posted a Woolley&Deakin marked blade with an Americanized eagle head pommel sword, would I attribute the whole to Woolley&Deakin? Or conceptualize that blades were a commodity?

Cheers
GC

12th April 2020, 11:31 PM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Guys, Just a quick update on my latest research on Osborn's G stamp. I have looked at many more blades and it is still true that all Osborn marked officers' swords and virtually all Osborn and Gunby marked officers' swords are stamped G or GG. There is an interesting sword coming up for auction at Morphy Auctions in America. It is an American silver hilted spadroon with a blade marked to R Bolton and Co with a G stamp. The hilt has the Birmingham silver marks for 1805. I have never come across a British sword marked to Bolton, so it seems that if Bolton made sword blades, he only did so for the American market which would be odd! A look thru the Birmingham trade directories for this period reveals the following results: There was an RP Bolton, Gunsmith who pops up from time to time around this period. There was a JH Bolton, Gun maker and occasional cutler consistently around this period There was a Richard Bolton and Co, Merchant consistently thru this period. Based on this and the absence of British marked Bolton swords the most likely explanation is that the R Bolton and Co marked American swords were put together using Osborn sword blades and exported to America by R Bolton and Co the merchants. I am unsure if Bolton and Co used Osborn blades exclusively or sourced them from several makers. If Bolton marked swords without a G stamp exist it means that Bolton and Co sourced blades from several makers. This particular G stamp looks to be somewhere in Between the earlier Osborn G stamp with serifs and the later Osborn and Gunby G stamp sans serif. I don't know if the change in G stamp was intentional or just came about by the older G stamp tools wearing out around the time of the change from Osborn to Osborn and Gunby. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

18th July 2018, 03:12 AM	#1
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Guys, Thank you GC for posting the G stamped sword above. Here is another G stamped Osborn and Gunby marked blade. This one also has the sans serif G. I am yet to come across an Osborn and Gunby marked sword which has the G stamp with "serifs". Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

8th January 2019, 11:18 PM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Guys, Came across this Osborn and Gunby marked sword at the Royal Armouries (Object IX.354). There are good photos showing the ricasso on both sides of the blade. There are no G stamps on the blade, so this supports the theory that Osborn and Gunby stopped using the G stamp at some stage. Unfortunately this sword has no features we can use to narrow down the date of manufacture. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

9th January 2019, 11:32 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Bryce, Thank you for keeping us up to date on this topic! This is an interesting example of the M1796 officers sword, which I think was used for some time even beyond the 1822 patterns as it was entirely a dress sword. It seems I read somewhere that British officers hated these for use on campaign. The Osborn & Gunby inscription and motif and absence of the forte letter stamp we have been discussing is most interesting. It seems that Mowbray had suggested as partners (1808) the use of a GG was used instead of the O or Ob formerly used. Without really having a better idea of what these letters stamped at the forte actually meant it is hard to really say if a blade without them can be placed in a certain time frame. At one point it seems it was suggested that these letters may have been indicating a blade or sword for export to America. If that was the case, perhaps this was simply one that was for British use?

10th January 2019, 04:27 AM	#4
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Jim, All Osborn marked officers' swords have either a G or GG stamp. Most Osborn and Gunby swords have either a G or GG stamp, so the GG stamp does not differentiate Osborn and Gunby made swords from those made solely by Osborn. I have never come across an Osborn marked sword with an O or Ob stamp. What does differentiate Osborn swords from those made by Osborn and Gunby is the font of the G stamp. Osborn and Gunby made swords have a sans serif G stamp. There is also no correlation with swords made for export to America with the presence or absence of a G stamp. If enough dated Osborn and Gunby officers' swords could be examined, I am sure we would find that past a certain date, Osborn and Gunby stopped using the G stamp. Cheers, Bryce

10th January 2019, 05:18 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Thanks very much Bryce! That insight explains a lot, and I know you've done extensive research on this topic and with these swords so I will definitely amend my notes. All the best Jim

14th April 2020, 01:42 AM	#7
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	More likely, the blade itself may have come from Osborn. In post #10 of this thread, I attached a series of images with a blade with a G and the eagle type known to be Bolton's. There are also some other distinctive etching that can be seen from more than one "producer". Then in post #25, a sword not marked to Osborn with a G marked blade. If I posted a Woolley&Deakin marked blade with an Americanized eagle head pommel sword, would I attribute the whole to Woolley&Deakin? Or conceptualize that blades were a commodity? Cheers GC