New Ivory Hilt Kris

Aslan Paladin · 26th January 2018, 06:42 AM

I won this ivory hilt kris sword along with 2 other swords in an online auction last November and got to take pictures for sharing here in the forum just now (the sword arrived 2 weeks ago). It is 28.5 inches in overall length with a 22-inch blade. I removed as much rust as I could get off the blade and gave it a light etch with vinegar, revealing linear lamination patterns down the center. The blade edges have multiple small nicks. I think it is a Maranao kris. The first four images are from the auction site. Comments and opinions are most welcomed. Enjoy.

Aslan Paladin · 26th January 2018, 06:44 AM

Group picture with my other ivory hilt kris swords.

mariusgmioc · 26th January 2018, 08:24 AM

Great addition to your collection!

Congrstulations!

Aslan Paladin · 26th January 2018, 09:19 AM

Thanks!

kai · 27th January 2018, 01:46 AM

Hello Algelan,

Very nice family pic!

BTW, did you showed us the kris at the bottom already?

Congrats to the new addition!

I have a hunch that the blade might be Sulu rather than Marano - could you please add a close-up of the gangya area taken directly from above, please?

The cross-piece is definitely Sulu; the scabbard silver bands look restored to me from the pics (despite some dings).

I do wonder whether the hilt got married to the blade at a later time (maybe abroad)? The last band with okir seems a tad large, too. Any hints it might be an older replacement? (Looks like genuine Moro craftsmanship though.)

Just speculating a bit to hear your thoughts - pics can be deceiving.

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 27th January 2018, 04:08 AM

Aslan, I agree with you that the blade is Maranao. The okir on the hilt mounts also look Maguindanao or Maranao (sometimes difficult to tell being next to each other).

Kai, sometimes Maranao scabbard wrangka tops have this older form that is similar to the Sulu versions.

Congratulations on a great piece and growing family of great kris!

My request: would you post closeups of the 3rd and 4th kris hilts please? (3rd and 4th from the top)

alexish · 27th January 2018, 04:43 AM

Dear Asian Paladin,

I have noted that all your Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilts are accompanied with straight blades.

Is this merely a coincidence, or actual trend amongst Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilted krises that they are usually accompanied with straight blades?

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Algelan,

Very nice family pic!

BTW, did you showed us the kris at the bottom already?

Thanks Kai.

The kris at the bottom was the first kris in my collection and the first bit of ivory I owned. I was lucky with that one as I got it cheap, the seller didn't know the hilt was ivory and probably mistook it for wood or something due to the dark patina. The blade was corroded all over so it took me a lot of effort to clean. It seemed it have undergone a lot of etching in the past thus the erosion of the edges as well as the laminations looking almost topographical. I think there appears to be faint talismanic symbols as well. I also think it is a Sulu kris. The pic of the kris with the dark, corroded blade is from the seller.

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Aslan, I agree with you that the blade is Maranao. The okir on the hilt mounts also look Maguindanao or Maranao (sometimes difficult to tell being next to each other).

I thought the okir was Maranao based on comparisons with other Moro antiques/vintage items that I own which are similar to products still being produced in Tugaya or Marawi

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Congratulations on a great piece and growing family of great kris!

My request: would you post closeups of the 3rd and 4th kris hilts please? (3rd and 4th from the top)

As you wish Battara. I think both hilts have suassa, although I haven't had a jeweler test them and the sellers for both swords didn't mention it either. I posted them next to a Malay sundang with a suassa ferule (as stated by the seller) for comparison.

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I have a hunch that the blade might be Sulu rather than Marano - could you please add a close-up of the gangya area taken directly from above, please?

I don't know if this satisfies your request Kai but here it goes.

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

Dear Asian Paladin,

I have noted that all your Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilts are accompanied with straight blades.

Is this merely a coincidence, or actual trend amongst Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilted krises that they are usually accompanied with straight blades?

Actually I only have one junggayan hilted kris - the one at the top but sadly the crest and the beak broke off a long time ago before it passed on to me. The 3 other ones with the large kakatua hilts are danganans. I think it's just a coincidence that all but one of the ivory-hilted kris swords I currently own are straight-bladed. But hey, I consider myself a novice collector so I couldn't say that for sure.

Aslan Paladin · 27th January 2018, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I do wonder whether the hilt got married to the blade at a later time (maybe abroad)? The last band with okir seems a tad large, too. Any hints it might be an older replacement? (Looks like genuine Moro craftsmanship though.)

I wouldn't discount the possibility that the hilt could be later but I wouldn't know what to look for that could indicate an age difference between the blade and the hilt . I thought that the blade was Maranao based on the gangya and the hilt as Maranao as well due to the okir on the upper band. The scabbard I wasn't really sure but as Battara said a few Maranao scabbards possessed crosspieces similar to Sulu boat styles (I also crosschecked with Cato after the fact).

David · 27th January 2018, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

Dear Asian Paladin,

I have noted that all your Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilts are accompanied with straight blades.

Is this merely a coincidence, or actual trend amongst Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilted krises that they are usually accompanied with straight blades?

Actually Alexish, i'd have to see better photos, but i don't think most of these ivory kakatau pommels are elongated and extravagant enough to qualify as Junggayan. To sate you query though, here is a link to a Junggayan kris that is indeed wavy.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6637

Battara · 27th January 2018, 07:51 AM

David is correct. In fact, none of these kris are junggayan. All but 2 of the above krises so far are considered danganan pommel styles (and one of these kris isn't even Moro but Malaysian).

26th January 2018, 06:42 AM	#1
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	New Ivory Hilt Kris I won this ivory hilt kris sword along with 2 other swords in an online auction last November and got to take pictures for sharing here in the forum just now (the sword arrived 2 weeks ago). It is 28.5 inches in overall length with a 22-inch blade. I removed as much rust as I could get off the blade and gave it a light etch with vinegar, revealing linear lamination patterns down the center. The blade edges have multiple small nicks. I think it is a Maranao kris. The first four images are from the auction site. Comments and opinions are most welcomed. Enjoy. Attached Images Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 26th January 2018 at 06:59 AM.

26th January 2018, 06:44 AM	#2
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	Group picture with my other ivory hilt kris swords. Attached Images

27th January 2018, 04:43 AM	#7
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Straight Blades with Junggayan Ivory Hilts Dear Asian Paladin, I have noted that all your Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilts are accompanied with straight blades. Is this merely a coincidence, or actual trend amongst Datu-style Junggayan Ivory Hilted krises that they are usually accompanied with straight blades?

26th January 2018, 08:24 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Great addition to your collection! Congrstulations!

26th January 2018, 09:19 AM	#4
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	Thanks!

27th January 2018, 01:46 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Algelan, Very nice family pic! BTW, did you showed us the kris at the bottom already? Congrats to the new addition! I have a hunch that the blade might be Sulu rather than Marano - could you please add a close-up of the gangya area taken directly from above, please? The cross-piece is definitely Sulu; the scabbard silver bands look restored to me from the pics (despite some dings). I do wonder whether the hilt got married to the blade at a later time (maybe abroad)? The last band with okir seems a tad large, too. Any hints it might be an older replacement? (Looks like genuine Moro craftsmanship though.) Just speculating a bit to hear your thoughts - pics can be deceiving. Regards, Kai

27th January 2018, 04:08 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Aslan, I agree with you that the blade is Maranao. The okir on the hilt mounts also look Maguindanao or Maranao (sometimes difficult to tell being next to each other). Kai, sometimes Maranao scabbard wrangka tops have this older form that is similar to the Sulu versions. Congratulations on a great piece and growing family of great kris! My request: would you post closeups of the 3rd and 4th kris hilts please? (3rd and 4th from the top)

27th January 2018, 07:51 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	David is correct. In fact, none of these kris are junggayan. All but 2 of the above krises so far are considered danganan pommel styles (and one of these kris isn't even Moro but Malaysian).