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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
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I just heard on the BBC a moment ago that the UK is planning a complete ban on ivory. This ban is universal and will also cover antique ivory even if certified to be before 1987.
Some the best keris have ivory ukiran/hulu or buntut. Actually for many quality Peninsular / Sumatra pieces, it is hard to exclude ivory. Also the finest Madura and North Java hilts I have seen are in ivory. Then there are Bali keris too with their ukiran and wrankra. I don't think Solo and Jogja uses much ivory. Would old work now be destroyed? How would other forms of "ivory" be affected - Marine, Hippo, Walrus etc. Honestly I can't really tell the difference. (I remember there were threads on different types of ivory but I have not looked them up yet.) What is your opinion on this? I hope I am not repeating an old thread. ![]() |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Yes, it seems there will be a complete ban on the buying and selling of ivory of any age in the UK, according to the media. With some small exceptions - quote sales to and between museums, musical instruments, items containing only a small amount of ivory, and items of significant historical, cultural or artistic value unquote. This is from the "Daily Telegraph" 6.10.17.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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The UK government has entered a consultation period on the issue of ivory sales, so now is the time for UK dealers and collectors to make their voices heard through their local MPs. I don't think there is yet any attempt to require old ivory pieces to be destroyed but the sale of nearly all ivory items would be banned.
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#4 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
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#5 |
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Ivory and the attitude of some people towards ivory has become a problem.
This latest UK initiative seems to have been generated by a couple of factors additional to the ever vocal Tree Huggers and so-called "Conservationists". The UK is now the biggest exporter of legal ivory in the world, and there is ivory laundering activity that appears to be able to take advantage of the legal trade in ivory. China has already taken action that will eventually see the public ivory market in China collapse. Then there is the fact that in 2018 the UK will be hosting a very important conference on the illegal wildlife trade. If that conference were to take place in a country that still had a legal domestic trade in ivory, it might be seen by some as a somewhat embarrassing situation. So, we have a proposal for a total ban on the trade in ivory. As with all attempted total bans, this ban will only handicap those in the public market place, those who are compelled to abide by the written law. When any ban is attempted on any thing for which there is still a demand, the result is absolutely foreseeable:- the sale of these banned commodities goes underground, demand increases, prices rise. Total bans are evidence of total stupidity, stupidity which is perhaps the result of a deficiency of an understanding of history. The answer to the ivory conundrum lays in effective management, not in ineffective rules and regulations. |
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#6 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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https://committeeforculturalpolicy.o...ry-repository/ |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
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We replaced normality and common sense with rules made by idiots and enforced by idiots. And unfortunately this trend can easily be seen in all aspects of our society. ![]() |
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#8 |
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Yep.
I spent a lot of my life ensuring that rules fitting Marius' comments did in fact function effectively. I've seen the bad joke from the inside. |
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#9 | |
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#10 |
Vikingsword Staff
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One more thing:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie...b_5745994.html |
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#11 |
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I could and will agree with all that has been said. However ivory is just another material like plastic except natural. The situation could promote a deeper appreciation of other materials or what we see as art and I have to say it what we believe to be " high end " a ghastly term. Some of the ivory "high end " is not worked in any remarkable art way, the only value is because people have been led to believe in the value. This is now going to change like many fashions and ideas in history. Sorry if it adds to the upset.
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#12 |
Vikingsword Staff
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Is it ironic that even Mammoth ivory falls under this proscription?
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#13 |
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You may well be right Tim.
However, ivory has been a part of the Human Experience for tens of thousands of years. I rather feel that an appreciation of ivory is locked firmly into the sub-conscious of many people, and that this inherited attitude crosses the boundaries of culture and society. Can a momentary change in societal attitudes affect the heritage of the Human Experience? Personally, I doubt that it can. There may be a hiatus in the use and appreciation of ivory, a hiatus that will surely come to an end. When the pendulum swings too far one way, it has nowhere to go except to swing back again, and eventually it comes to rest in the centre. As this applies to ivory, perhaps during the Colonial Era there was an over-use of ivory, perhaps this overuse continued past the time when it could be supported, the result was that the pendulum swung too far into the range of use. Now we have the probably predictable reaction of well intentioned people, and the pendulum is on the verge of swinging too far into the range of non-use. Eventually that pendulum will commence to swing back to the range of use, and after an even longer period of time it will come to rest within the range of acceptable use. All things pass, including the idiocy of well intentioned but badly misguided Tree Huggers. In the meantime, opportunities are being presented for those who are prepared to ignore regulation to increase their wealth. Total bans do nothing but encourage criminal activity. Adequate control and management is a better option. |
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#14 | |
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I believe this is a well known fact that was so well illustrated and proven by the US experience during the prohibition years, when not only that criminal gangs flourished, but even alcohol consumption increased. Yet, it appers that our law makers are so idiotic they either don't know, or they ignore this. That's why I believe that our societies are slowly but steadily turning into Kafkian idiocracies. PS: I wish I share your optimism illustrated by your pendulum example... ![]() |
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#15 | |
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Perhaps as disturbing will be any bone then being as restricted. Then any digging for artifacts of any age. Then collections of anything aside from ration stamps. Cheers GC |
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#16 | |
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#17 | |
Vikingsword Staff
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![]() https://www.theguardian.com/world/ga...le-in-pictures |
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#18 |
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From Mowbray's eagle pommel title re ivory. It has been pointed out to me that he likely really means mammoth.
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