Shotley Bridge swordmakers

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Ibrahiim. You have found some vital material here, thank-you. I note Jenny Morrison's involvement in some of the material: she is head of Archaeology for the county but has just returned from her holidays so I am waiting to hear from her regarding this iron and steel issue; I have consulted her a few times in the past; she is sitting on a wealth of information that she can enthusiastically supply without effort.
"Finding a lost play" perfectly put! It is precisely why I have embraced the iron industry in general, and the Derwent Valley in particular. My research into Wootz got me started, and I rapidly began to appreciate just how closely connected are the two industries; with steel surviving, of course, and sword-making becoming a cultural craft.
This research led me - inevitably - to Benjamin Huntsman the clock-maker from Doncaster, who moved to Sheffield's environs as he began his crucible manufacturing. I came across an interesting note on Wikipedia that is apropos of little but the probability that it was Klingenthal where it went; although I am only guessing here - I am certain someone will know for sure:
The local (Sheffield) cutlery manufacturers refused to buy Huntsman's cast steel, as it was harder than the German steel they were accustomed to using. For a long time Huntsman exported his whole output to France.
As I have already stated, the arrival of the Germans in Shotley Bridge was never fully justified - considering the vast number of alternatives, but once you put the iron and steel industry into the equation it becomes far more realistic a proposition.
I don't, however, discount the abundance of necessary facilities and materials available, because they were a pre-requisite. I am particularly interested in Richardson's statement about the water being radio-active; I am determined to track down just what was meant by that and where the proposition came from, as Richardson doesn't say. There was also the business of the water being the equal of the Tagus: just what exactly are we talking about here? Mineral content? Isotopes? What else?
There is still much to confirm however: in particular, the presence of Bertram prior to 1685. I know he was shipwrecked in 1690, but I don't take that to mean he was not here before then; I have to look into that.
One thing I am learning, as I progress with researching history, is that I mustn't jump on the odd piece of information – or even a much repeated myth, like Mohll becoming Mole – just because it presents a convincing scenario. For example, three times in 24 hours I have read that in one case Bertram, and in two cases Hayford, had sword-works in Shotley Bridge: is this true? has it been overlooked by everyone so far? Like I said, don't grasp at stuff just because it fits the picture. A supreme example of this would be to consider that sword-making existed in Shotley Bridge prior to 1685, and that the three members of the Hounslow group simply came up to join existing swordmakers.
I am going to tag a couple of items: one is a report for English Heritage when they took over the care of the Derwentcote forge; the second is a clipping regarding the leading lights of the Sheffield steel industry specifically our very own Denis Hayford.
[IMG]

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Richardson. His Spa water apparently tasted pretty bad... perhaps because of the mineral content or even H2S Sulphurous water is supposed to be good for skin ailments etc...

1847. Jonathan Richardson's Spa in Shotley Bridge

The spring anciently called "Hally Well," now Shotley Spa, was at a distant period noted for its efficacy in the cure of scrofulous complaints ( Literally, relating to scrofula (tuberculosis (or TB like bacteria) of the lymph nodes, particularly of the neck). it fell, however, into disuse, and for a long time no benefit was derived from it, till a prevailing tradition lately induced Jonathan Richardson, Esq., to commence a search upon the spot where it was supposed to exist.
The search was successful. Appropriate buildings, a wellroom, baths, &c, were erected in the rustic style; and Mr. Richardson has opened carriage-drives and promenades upon his estate.
In the village, there are two paper-mills in operation; a market for corn is held weekly, and a fair for cattle every half year.

[urbanspaceman]

I found Wilhelm Bertram's birth records: 1670 - 1740; born in Remsheid as previously indicated. 70 years old when he died: not bad for someone who worked in such an awful environment.
The date of his shipwreck varies however between 1690 and 1693.
Regardless of that, he was just into his twenties, very young to be put in charge of a steel-making furnace.
I need to get more details e.g. where was the ship going? coming from? why was he on it? etc, etc.
Hmmm. I think Jenny Morrison may know.

[urbanspaceman]

My obsession with Bertram is because here was another German who mysteriously found his way to Shotley Bridge.
Was he on his way there anyway? And if so, why? Who sent for him? Was he with other industry workers on the ship?
The North Durham coast, where he was shipwrecked, is essentially the mouth of the Tyne, and aiming for the Tyne from out at sea in those days could quite easily have you blown slightly south, usually with tragic results.
In my opinion, his business was on Tyneside; or possibly Wearside if he was going to work for Sir Ambrose Crowley at his works in Sunderland.

[urbanspaceman]

I'm abandoning Bertram, as he could not possibly have been here before 1685 in any capacity that might attract the Hounslow and Solingen pilgrims.
Back to the drawing board and look for Vinting, who was definitely first generation local; and I still think his ancestors were involved in the lead mines at Ryton but we'll have to find out for sure somehow.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

ah I was just looking at that...i picked up the scent at ~

https://www.google.com/search?q=Has+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

The letter goes on to say....

Hello all

Has anyone done any research into the VINTON family?

I am particularly interested in John VINTON who was a chainmaker.
Born in about 1802, he was probably the son of William VINTON of Winlaton
Mill.
However I have been unable to find a baptism for him.

William VINTON [son of Samuel] married Elizabeth FENWICK in July 1797 at
Newcastle All Saints
I believe they had the following children - baptism locations given.
Samuel 1798 Newcastle All Saints
Elizabeth 1800 Newcastle All Saints
John???? 1802???
possibly another child in 1804
Mary Ann 1806 Gateshead
Eleanor 1808 Newcastle All Saints
William 1811 Gateshead

My family history notes tell me that
"The VINTONs were one of the families who went to the Derwent
valley at quite an early time, to participate in the iron industry.
They may indeed have been one of the Shotley Bridge Sword-making
families. If not then they would have been associated with the early
iron foundry at Blackhall Mill or else the one at Derwent Cote. In any
case the original Vintons were of German extraction and many of them
ended up working for Crowleys at Winlaton, Winlaton Mill and Swalwell."

Any help finding John's baptism record in about 1802 - [or William's burial
before 1838] - would be appreciated

see also http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-07/0900255787

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Ibrahiim. Thank-you, very well done. Jim said you were an expert searcher, and he was right: you must have some secrets I am sure.
I have emailed the genealogy researcher (Heather) on both her email addresses, one of which bounced right back, giving her the entry from Richardson's book, in the slight hope she worked her way back further herself after all this time.
It's beginning to look like the Derwent Valley was known within the German steel/iron/mining industry. I won't venture any further speculations at this point.
Instead, I put Vinton into Google and up popped Vinton Metals/Batteries down in Kent who specialise is the safe salvage of lead/acid batteries.
I've sent them an email as well.