Interesting and unusual knife, opinions please!

[Sajen]

Just bought this very intersting knife, it's 39,5 cm (approx. 15,5") long overall, sadly no scabbard. I was listed as "Indonesian kriss dagger" but I strongly doubt this origin and have already an own opinion but don't want to influence any other opinions and want to read first what others think about this knife. So all comments are very welcome! The pictures are from the ebay auction/seller.

[Rick]

First thing that came to my mind was Thai, Detlef.
Blade profile and ferrule at least.

The figural handle...

[Battara]

I almost bid on this! I like it but like you couldn't pin point the origin.

[Roland_M]

Hello Detlef,

Nice knife you bought there! I'm looking forward to see it in 3d.


Roland

[Sajen]

Hello dear members,

thank you for your kind comments! I for my part think that Rick is on the correct path. I think as well that it is a dha knife or short sword. For the origin I am unsure, it could come either from the Thai Tak province Mae Sot river region since the blade shape remember strong to the bird dha's (see picture) or from the bottom of Thailand at the border of Malaysia (Pattani region) but I think that the first region is the better guess since the blade shape is very similar. Any other thoughts?

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

Very nice knife. That heavy "chunky" ferrule is not really typical of Thai work and reminds me more of what we see sometimes on Sumatran pedang and similar knives/swords. I think I would favor southern Thailand near Malaysia as its source. Nice find.

Any thoughts about the figure on the hilt?

Ian.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Very nice knife. That heavy "chunky" ferrule is not really typical of Thai work and reminds me more of what we see sometimes on Sumatran pedang and similar knives/swords. I think I would favor southern Thailand near Malaysia as its source. Nice find.

Any thoughts about the figure on the hilt?

Hi Ian,

thank you for comment. I think both guesses are good as the other. The Thai Tak province Mae Sot river region (border to Burma) I've had in mind because this bird head dha's coming from this region and the blade shape is very similar, see also this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=bird+head
But the origin from the Southern Thai (Pattani) region is also a very good one, like you said, the chunky silver ferrule is a good hint for this origin.

Maybe the blade construction can give us a hint when I have it in my hands. The blade looks laminated which would pin point to South Thailand IMVHO.

And no, I haven't a clue about the deity hilt, do you have something in mind?

Best regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

I was trying to track down your reference to the "Tak Province Mae Sot region." Those terms are not showing up using the search engine for this site. Perhaps you could let us know where that attribution comes from.

Ian.

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

a very good friend of mine have visited this region (like many others) and have found that these bird head dha's coming from there, the one shown on the red background was once in his possession like some others in the same style.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

Thanks for that information. As far as the identification of the figure on the hilt, I wonder if it is a depiction of Hanuman from the Thai Ramakien. We had a discussion previously of how Hanuman is portrayed in the Thai version of the Ramayama here. The open mouth and canine teeth are common features in Hanuman's representation.

Ian

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

very good hint and very obvious! This would also explain the "crown" he wearing. Thank you.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Have received the knife already some days ago. Sadly is the blade heavy and partly deep scratched from a previous owner by a grinder or something else, the tip of the blade was bended and the horn hilt is cracked in the back. The tip is straight again and I've started to repolish the blade on one side, it's possible but hard work. The blade seems to be laminated what let me think that the origin is South Thailand.
The deity hilt figure has no fangs so I don't think that it shows Hanuman. Soon as possible I will be able to show some better pictures but here a few fast taken ones which shows how badly the blade is scratched and some close ups from the hilt.

[Ian]

Thanks for the extra pics Detlef. I agree, definitely not the usual depiction of Hanuman in Thai work. There are, however, many other characters from the Thai version of the Ramayama that this figure might represent.

The prior abuse to the blade is unfortunate, but maybe reparable, and your usual restorer may be able to help with the crack to the hilt. I hope you can revive this old knife because it is unusual and seems to have been around for a while.

Ian.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks for the extra pics Detlef. I agree, definitely not the usual depiction of Hanuman in Thai work. There are, however, many other characters from the Thai version of the Ramayama that this figure might represent.

Thank you Ian. And agree with you that it will be one of the numerous characters of the Thai Ramayama figures, hopefully I will find out one day which one.

Originally Posted by Ian

The prior abuse to the blade is unfortunate, but maybe reparable, and your usual restorer may be able to help with the crack to the hilt. I hope you can revive this old knife because it is unusual and seems to have been around for a while.

My first concern will be the blade and I think that I am on a good way to let look it nice again. The seller is situated in Danmark so it was shipped direct to Germany but maybe I will send it one day to the States that he can do his skilled work on the handle to close the crack. Like you I think it's worth the effort.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

My first concern will be the blade and I think that I am on a good way to let look it nice again.

Here some fast taken pictures after the first side is polished and has received a mild etch.

[Robert]

Very good work on removing the scratches from the blade so far Detlef. It should look great after you have finished both sides. The damage itself looks like a previous owner used a wire wheel on a grinder (most likely to remove rust) without realizing just how much damage it would do the metal. I am not sure what has caused more damage to blades, wire wheels or dremels. If you would, please post more photos of this piece when it is finished for future reference. Congratulations on being able to add this most unusual piece to your ever growing collection.

Best,
Robert

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Robert

I am not sure what has caused more damage to blades, wire wheels or dremels.

Yes indeed!

[Sajen]

Thank you Robert,

yes, the front side look now much better but it was a hard job by hand only, now I'll work at the back side, it will need some time!

And I agree with you, some good old blades get hard abused and it need work and endurance to let look them good again.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

The back side is polished as well, here a comparison before and after. Will post pictures from the complete knife when it is etched.

[OsobistGB]

I saw this knife about a month ago.Coincidentally I am pleased to know the previous owner.I'm sure that Niels did not sharpen the knife and the condition was such.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by OsobistGB

I saw this knife about a month ago.Coincidentally I am pleased to know the previous owner.I'm sure that Niels did not sharpen the knife and the condition was such.

Hello Osobist,

can you explain your statement a little bit more? Which previous owner do you mean? I've bought this knife from a Danish ebay seller named klientjagt, is this Niels? When I received the knife it was in such poor condition with all the scratches on the blade and it was not sharpened but with a very dull edge. I suppose that a previous owner tried to clean the blade very unprofessional.

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Hi Detlef,

Good job! A final grit of around 1000 should be enough plus a finish with the red japanese rust eraser (kc91 or so).
I'm interested to see the result of the staining. But this sword was never intended to be a pattern welded eye-candy. So it will be pretty difficult to make a contrastful finish.


Roland

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Good job! A final grit of around 1000 should be enough plus a finish with the red japanese rust eraser (kc91 or so).

Hi Roland,
it has the final finish with 1000 paper grit also when it don't look like this in the picture.

Originally Posted by Roland_M

But this sword was never intended to be a pattern welded eye-candy. So it will be pretty difficult to make a contrastful finish.

Agree with you but it will look better when stained.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here the finished work, the blade is polished and etched with lemon juice. Excuse the picture quality, it's rather dark here in Germany.
Rolands and mine assumption was correct, the blade show only a hardened edge but not a contrast lamination.