British Infantry Dress Sabre 18th Regt of What?

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2017, 08:15 PM

I have a lionhead British band sword c. 1820s
The thing is that band sabres seem to have full brass scabbards, and mine is marked 2D and a number. ...2nd dragoons....full brass scabbard.

Richard G · 3rd May 2017, 12:49 PM

Cathey,
To sum up, I think this is unlikely to be an officers sword, the blade is plain, the grip is bone, not ivory and it is marked to a regiment and not an individual. At 27in the blade is too short to be a 'fighting' sword, but in many respects it seems to lack the decoration I would expect on a levee sword. Officers may have had their swords marked to their regiment, but I think not in such a simple, 'off-hand', manner.
I think it is unlikely to be the 18th Hussars for the simple reason there were none between 1821 and 1861 which, stylistically, is the period of this sword.
The 18th Foot is a possibility, I was worried about the bone grip, which looks rather ill fitted, but I found this regiment spent most of this period on overseas service, so, anomalies not normally expected in a British sword are possible.
A 27inch blade is consistent with a band sword, whether or not the 18th foot carried a band with them I do not know.
There were a couple of '18th's in the Indian Army but they seem not to have been known as 'Regiment' but 'Native Infantry' etc.
We don't know for certain, but assuming this is genuinely old, a sword for ceremonial use, e.g. a band, belonging to the 18th Regiment of Foot seems to me the most likely attribution.
Regards
Richard

thinreadline · 4th May 2017, 11:07 AM

Here is a similar sword from Robson 'Swords of the British Army' . It is described as 'mameluke' style. This seems to confirm the band sword ID .

Cathey · 22nd May 2017, 05:34 AM

Hi Guys

I was tidying up my data base the other day and found another similar sword by an Irish maker listed as a naval hanger. Whilst the cross guard is plain the hilt and grip is almost identical to mine. This one having an Irish connection is pushing me back to the 18th Irish Regiment of foot as the possible owner of this Band Sword. Any thoughts?

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2017, 09:41 PM

Great tidying Cathey!!! and thank you for the follow up here. I think you have a very compelling point with this discovery. The number of vendors and outfitters in Ireland are often overlooked by collectors except those who frequent references such as Annis & May focused on these records.

It makes sense that an Irish officer or in this case perhaps a member of a band in these British units might have acquired his sword through a local source.

4th May 2017, 11:07 AM	#3
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Here is a similar sword from Robson 'Swords of the British Army' . It is described as 'mameluke' style. This seems to confirm the band sword ID . Attached Images

22nd May 2017, 05:34 AM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Band Sword but what Regiment Hi Guys I was tidying up my data base the other day and found another similar sword by an Irish maker listed as a naval hanger. Whilst the cross guard is plain the hilt and grip is almost identical to mine. This one having an Irish connection is pushing me back to the 18th Irish Regiment of foot as the possible owner of this Band Sword. Any thoughts? Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

29th April 2017, 08:15 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	I have a lionhead British band sword c. 1820s The thing is that band sabres seem to have full brass scabbards, and mine is marked 2D and a number. ...2nd dragoons....full brass scabbard.

3rd May 2017, 12:49 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	Cathey, To sum up, I think this is unlikely to be an officers sword, the blade is plain, the grip is bone, not ivory and it is marked to a regiment and not an individual. At 27in the blade is too short to be a 'fighting' sword, but in many respects it seems to lack the decoration I would expect on a levee sword. Officers may have had their swords marked to their regiment, but I think not in such a simple, 'off-hand', manner. I think it is unlikely to be the 18th Hussars for the simple reason there were none between 1821 and 1861 which, stylistically, is the period of this sword. The 18th Foot is a possibility, I was worried about the bone grip, which looks rather ill fitted, but I found this regiment spent most of this period on overseas service, so, anomalies not normally expected in a British sword are possible. A 27inch blade is consistent with a band sword, whether or not the 18th foot carried a band with them I do not know. There were a couple of '18th's in the Indian Army but they seem not to have been known as 'Regiment' but 'Native Infantry' etc. We don't know for certain, but assuming this is genuinely old, a sword for ceremonial use, e.g. a band, belonging to the 18th Regiment of Foot seems to me the most likely attribution. Regards Richard

22nd May 2017, 09:41 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Great tidying Cathey!!! and thank you for the follow up here. I think you have a very compelling point with this discovery. The number of vendors and outfitters in Ireland are often overlooked by collectors except those who frequent references such as Annis & May focused on these records. It makes sense that an Irish officer or in this case perhaps a member of a band in these British units might have acquired his sword through a local source.