A Scottish basket hilt for comment.

Cerjak · 19th February 2017, 05:52 PM

A Scottish basket hilt for comment.
O.L. 104 cm ; blade L. 88 cm; blade width at hilt 3.8 cm. single edge.
Pommel mark : 59
When I have bought it I had the guess that this sword has probably been hung for a long time inside a church . The blade and hilt were covered of black paint. the layers of paint seemed very old and have been very easy to remove even without efforts.
Any comment on it would be welcome.

Cerjak

Will M · 20th February 2017, 03:07 AM

I'm no expert on basket hilts of this period but it being numbered would suggest belonging to a regiment and therefore most likely an English basket hilt?
The black paint I would think was part of its history but coming off easily does not suggest old paint to me, really old that is.
I have a mortuary sword with remaining black paint on the inside of the hilt and would not be removed easily if you wanted to.
When does this sword date to, I'd be only guessing.
Nice find!

Battara · 20th February 2017, 04:18 AM

Could this have been a regiment belonging to the Black Watch? Later Scottish regimental basket hilts would have had a conical top (i.e. the American Revolution). This looks older, and might be English, but I am at this second leaning toward Scottish.

I also agree with the paint being later. Perhaps used as a form of preservation.

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2017, 05:38 AM

I would say likely Scottish hilt but probably from English garrison armouries there in first half 18th c. (good to see remains of wire wrap still present on the tang). The 'Black Watch' was 6 companies of Scots (clans Campbell, Fraser, Munro and Grant) formed post '15 rebellion to patrol the Highlands ('watch', the term black or dubh meant dark or covert). This was about 1740. The bun type pommel suggests about that time as does the hilt.
The traditional pierced saltires with these shapes also indicate it is Scottish, the English made hilts were plain bars and plates.

Not sure on the numbers on pommel but seem most likely to be rack number or other than regimental .

The conical pommel hilts (usually by Drury or Jeffries) were produced in Birmingham around 1760s and indeed were known used by Black Watch, the 42nd Highlanders.

Will M · 20th February 2017, 04:23 PM

Post # 130 has a similarly marked pommel and sword blade, hilt different.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...718#post182718

Cerjak · 20th February 2017, 04:48 PM

Thank you Will , as Jim has wrote it this numbers on pommel seem most likely to be a rack number .
best
Cerjak

19th February 2017, 05:52 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	A Scottish basket hilt for comment. A Scottish basket hilt for comment. O.L. 104 cm ; blade L. 88 cm; blade width at hilt 3.8 cm. single edge. Pommel mark : 59 When I have bought it I had the guess that this sword has probably been hung for a long time inside a church . The blade and hilt were covered of black paint. the layers of paint seemed very old and have been very easy to remove even without efforts. Any comment on it would be welcome. Cerjak Attached Images Last edited by Cerjak; 19th February 2017 at 06:07 PM.

20th February 2017, 03:07 AM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I'm no expert on basket hilts of this period but it being numbered would suggest belonging to a regiment and therefore most likely an English basket hilt? The black paint I would think was part of its history but coming off easily does not suggest old paint to me, really old that is. I have a mortuary sword with remaining black paint on the inside of the hilt and would not be removed easily if you wanted to. When does this sword date to, I'd be only guessing. Nice find!

20th February 2017, 04:18 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Could this have been a regiment belonging to the Black Watch? Later Scottish regimental basket hilts would have had a conical top (i.e. the American Revolution). This looks older, and might be English, but I am at this second leaning toward Scottish. I also agree with the paint being later. Perhaps used as a form of preservation.

20th February 2017, 05:38 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	I would say likely Scottish hilt but probably from English garrison armouries there in first half 18th c. (good to see remains of wire wrap still present on the tang). The 'Black Watch' was 6 companies of Scots (clans Campbell, Fraser, Munro and Grant) formed post '15 rebellion to patrol the Highlands ('watch', the term black or dubh meant dark or covert). This was about 1740. The bun type pommel suggests about that time as does the hilt. The traditional pierced saltires with these shapes also indicate it is Scottish, the English made hilts were plain bars and plates. Not sure on the numbers on pommel but seem most likely to be rack number or other than regimental . The conical pommel hilts (usually by Drury or Jeffries) were produced in Birmingham around 1760s and indeed were known used by Black Watch, the 42nd Highlanders.

20th February 2017, 04:23 PM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Post # 130 has a similarly marked pommel and sword blade, hilt different. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...718#post182718

20th February 2017, 04:48 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Thank you Will , as Jim has wrote it this numbers on pommel seem most likely to be a rack number . best Cerjak