My Bugis keris

David · 17th October 2016, 08:18 AM

Definitely a people Johan, not a region. I believe that when you encounter something like "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." they are really simply referring to Bugis communities in southern Sumatra. The Bugis were a seafaring people and they got around and re-settled in many areas of Indonesia and Malaysia.

Johan van Zyl · 17th October 2016, 04:38 PM

Thanks, David, that puts me at ease. While I await some further kind inputs to the remaining questions I asked in the post above, let me ramble on. In my specific social community I am unfortunately isolated with regard to my interests. The result is that my friends (bless their arthritic joints) in my circle constantly have to submit to my stories and look at pictures of kerisses. At least they seem to share my enthusiasm, and I have not had the feeling they are merely humouring me.

My 81-year-old sister, who lives with my wife and I, regularly hobbles into my museum-like man-cave and demands updates on the newest information on the Bugis keris as it accumulates! That's cool.
Cheers
Johan

Rick · 17th October 2016, 06:53 PM

Welcome to our little asylum Johan.

You are not alone; all my friends have a hard time understanding my passion also; and I think that outside of the keris bearing societies many of our contemporaries scratch their heads and wonder about us.

Arms collecting seems to be looked at as rather un-PC these days.

Do you have any import restrictions on edged weapons in SA?

David · 17th October 2016, 08:11 PM

You know, we have talked about the difference in how keris are maintained in various South East Asian cultures, but frankly, i am still not exactly clear on what areas do what. AFAIK, Jawa, Bali, Madura and at least some parts of Sumatra consider staining a blade with warangan a traditional part of the process. Balinese blades tend to have their surfaces polished first. My understanding of the Malay Peninsula is that neither warangan nor polishing is the accepted process. But is there any consistency in the Bugis culture from island to island? Here is a Sulawesi blade that has a full warangan treatment. It was purchased from a dealer in Singapore and AFAIK it has never been outside SEA before it came into my hands, so this is not the work of a Western collector (though it may have been done for Western tastes?). But i have seen many other Bugis blades that don't seem to have ever received such treatment. I would love to form a list of how all these different SEA cultures treat their blades traditionally.

Johan van Zyl · 18th October 2016, 02:06 PM

Rick, thanks for your "sympathy". On the matter of the restrictions I cannot tell you anything as I have never needed to research it. I did get kukris on separate occasions from American sources some years ago, with no problems. I would reckon if I needed to order something vauable nowadays, I would demand that some sort of registration method with tracking number be used for security reasons.

David, thanks for your comments. It is clear you have given this matter a lot of thought, and it seems a worthwhile topic for you to investigate further. The blade you posted seems to have nickel as part of the pattern mix. Would I be correct when I say that my Bugis keris blade does not contain nickel, and that the slight colour differences visible can be ascribed to different types of iron ("white" and "black") in the billet?

I have in the meantime researched some of the terms used by Gustav. In my understanding sirah cecak is die blunt end of the ganja. The opposite end is buntut urang, if I am correct. Yes, there does seem to be a "beump", but I think the blade could only have gotten that bump while it was out of dress and without hilt. And I think it got the bump a long time ago as the bump looks as aged as the blade itself. Let me add here that the story goes that a man brought this keris as well as my Javanese keris out of SEA to South Africa in the 1950s. Both came into the hands of a collector, from whom my dealer cousin got them and passed them on to me. (I bartered an arm & a leg for them.) The bump could have occurred while still in SEA.

And then I would like to ask Jean what is it about the pendokok that might suggest Riau as place of origin above Sulawesi. It seems I have underestimated the pendokok as a part of the keris that one can get clues from. This is once again most interesting.

Jean mentioned the timpalaja as meaning "roof ridge" (the pattern at the base of the blade). I found an alternative unjung gunung, meaning "mountain peak". I assume these are from two different languages, indicating the very same thing.

Tebba jampu and wengkon I could not fathom. AFAIK wengkon is part of the description of a blade pattern (pamor). Could you come in here please, Jean?

Cheers
Johan

kai · 18th October 2016, 04:32 PM

Hello Johan,

Quote:

Would I be correct when I say that my Bugis keris blade does not contain nickel, and that the slight colour differences visible can be ascribed to different types of iron ("white" and "black") in the billet?

Your blade could be called "out of stain", i. e. it is not really possible to estimate how strong the contrast would be after any kind of etching. The contour-like or topographic effect of your blade suggests that the pamor was forged from quite different iron alloys; most likely these would also result in very visible pamor upon etching again: the contrast might get black & white as in David's example or (more likely with these kind of blades) some shade of dark grey vs. light grey...

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 18th October 2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

And then I would like to ask Jean what is it about the pendokok that might suggest Riau as place of origin above Sulawesi. It seems I have underestimated the pendokok as a part of the keris that one can get clues from. This is once again most interesting.

Jean mentioned the timpalaja as meaning "roof ridge" (the pattern at the base of the blade). I found an alternative unjung gunung, meaning "mountain peak". I assume these are from two different languages, indicating the very same thing.

Tebba jampu and wengkon I could not fathom. AFAIK wengkon is part of the description of a blade pattern (pamor). Could you come in here please, Jean?

Cheers
Johan

Hello Johan,
Please note that I am not a Bugis kris specialist, just an interested collector!
Regarding the pendokok (apparently called kili-kili in Sulawesi), this carved and flat type is sometimes called Bugis cup (by Frey for instance) and it seems more common in East Sumatra & Malaysia than in Sulawesi but other opinions are welcome. BTW I have my doubts that it could be made from solid gold...
Pamor Timpalaja is located at the base of the blade only, while pamor Ujung Gunung (called Gantara for Bugis krisses) extends along the whole blade.
Pamor Tebba Jampu is similar to pamor Ngulit Semangka or Beras Wutah in Java and it apparently means batang jampu in Indonesian "stem of the rose-apple?".
Pamor Teppobaja means batas baja in Indonesian or "steel limit". Pamor Teppobaja or Wengkon is the pamor line at the edges of the blade.
Regards

kai · 18th October 2016, 04:15 PM

Hello David,

Quote:

Here is a Sulawesi blade that has a full warangan treatment. It was purchased from a dealer in Singapore and AFAIK it has never been outside SEA before it came into my hands, so this is not the work of a Western collector (though it may have been done for Western tastes?).

Thanks for this rare glimpse on a nekkid blade of yours!

Could you add a full view, please? I have to admit that I'm not sure we're looking at a Madurese-made blade here...

BTW, I'd expect most decent keris blades from SE Asia to receive more or less sensible warangan treatment nowadays before being offered (locally or internationally); I don't think we can utilize these for judging traditional approaches of local communities anymore (most seem to be done according to Jawanese "tastes").

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 18th October 2016, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,

Could you add a full view, please? I have to admit that I'm not sure we're looking at a Madurese-made blade here...

BTW, I'd expect most decent keris blades from SE Asia to receive more or less sensible warangan treatment nowadays before being offered (locally or internationally); I don't think we can utilize these for judging traditional approaches of local communities anymore (most seem to be done according to Jawanese "tastes").

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,
Do you mean Madurese or Sulawesi?
Regarding the warangan treatment of Bugis blades, I noticed that almost all the blades shown in the book Senjata Pusaka Bugis and which belong to collectors from Sulawesi have been stained; however this could just be for showing a high contrast in the book. Most of the Bugis blades which I saw in East Kalimantan 20 years ago were not stained but probably because the owners did not have access to warangan.
Regards

David · 18th October 2016, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for this rare glimpse on a nekkid blade of yours!

Could you add a full view, please? I have to admit that I'm not sure we're looking at a Madurese-made blade here...

Ah, sorry, no, that's all you get this time around i'm afraid.

I am fairly certain that indeed we are not looking at a a Madurese blade. But this thread isn't about this blade and i only posted these portions to venture a general question about the traditions of warangan treatment across the board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, I'd expect most decent keris blades from SE Asia to receive more or less sensible warangan treatment nowadays before being offered (locally or internationally); I don't think we can utilize these for judging traditional approaches of local communities anymore (most seem to be done according to Jawanese "tastes").

This is quite possible Kai and you may have noticed that i suggested as much in my post. However, i do maintain a connection with a group of (mostly) Malay collectors and their take seems to be to clean with lime not use warangan. So on the local level i am not convinced the the Javanese methods have taken hold across the entire spectrum of keris bearing cultures.

Johan van Zyl · 19th October 2016, 11:19 AM

Thank you Jean & Kai, I have taken serious note of your helpful comments and am amplifying my own personal keris dictionary with your help.

One of my remaining questions is about the "gold" mendak/pendokok. I'm not saying it is impossible that my cousin could be mistaken, but I'm now thinking along the lines of "gilded" instead, as a possible explanation for the positive acid test that he reported. Was gilding practised in mid-19th century by the empus? Does the gilded (if that is the case) mendak fit in with the class of this keris, or with the keris-crafting practices of those days?

Secondly, coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance?

Any ideas about the wood type of the hilt and gandar? I myself am tempted to call the hilt kemuning, but I do not have a clue with regards to the gandar.
Cheers
Johan

17th October 2016, 08:11 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	You know, we have talked about the difference in how keris are maintained in various South East Asian cultures, but frankly, i am still not exactly clear on what areas do what. AFAIK, Jawa, Bali, Madura and at least some parts of Sumatra consider staining a blade with warangan a traditional part of the process. Balinese blades tend to have their surfaces polished first. My understanding of the Malay Peninsula is that neither warangan nor polishing is the accepted process. But is there any consistency in the Bugis culture from island to island? Here is a Sulawesi blade that has a full warangan treatment. It was purchased from a dealer in Singapore and AFAIK it has never been outside SEA before it came into my hands, so this is not the work of a Western collector (though it may have been done for Western tastes?). But i have seen many other Bugis blades that don't seem to have ever received such treatment. I would love to form a list of how all these different SEA cultures treat their blades traditionally. Attached Images Last edited by David; 18th October 2016 at 04:33 AM.

17th October 2016, 08:18 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Definitely a people Johan, not a region. I believe that when you encounter something like "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." they are really simply referring to Bugis communities in southern Sumatra. The Bugis were a seafaring people and they got around and re-settled in many areas of Indonesia and Malaysia.

17th October 2016, 04:38 PM	#2
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thanks, David, that puts me at ease. While I await some further kind inputs to the remaining questions I asked in the post above, let me ramble on. In my specific social community I am unfortunately isolated with regard to my interests. The result is that my friends (bless their arthritic joints) in my circle constantly have to submit to my stories and look at pictures of kerisses. At least they seem to share my enthusiasm, and I have not had the feeling they are merely humouring me. My 81-year-old sister, who lives with my wife and I, regularly hobbles into my museum-like man-cave and demands updates on the newest information on the Bugis keris as it accumulates! That's cool. Cheers Johan

17th October 2016, 06:53 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Welcome to our little asylum Johan. You are not alone; all my friends have a hard time understanding my passion also; and I think that outside of the keris bearing societies many of our contemporaries scratch their heads and wonder about us. Arms collecting seems to be looked at as rather un-PC these days. Do you have any import restrictions on edged weapons in SA?

18th October 2016, 02:06 PM	#5
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Rick, thanks for your "sympathy". On the matter of the restrictions I cannot tell you anything as I have never needed to research it. I did get kukris on separate occasions from American sources some years ago, with no problems. I would reckon if I needed to order something vauable nowadays, I would demand that some sort of registration method with tracking number be used for security reasons. David, thanks for your comments. It is clear you have given this matter a lot of thought, and it seems a worthwhile topic for you to investigate further. The blade you posted seems to have nickel as part of the pattern mix. Would I be correct when I say that my Bugis keris blade does not contain nickel, and that the slight colour differences visible can be ascribed to different types of iron ("white" and "black") in the billet? I have in the meantime researched some of the terms used by Gustav. In my understanding sirah cecak is die blunt end of the ganja. The opposite end is buntut urang, if I am correct. Yes, there does seem to be a "beump", but I think the blade could only have gotten that bump while it was out of dress and without hilt. And I think it got the bump a long time ago as the bump looks as aged as the blade itself. Let me add here that the story goes that a man brought this keris as well as my Javanese keris out of SEA to South Africa in the 1950s. Both came into the hands of a collector, from whom my dealer cousin got them and passed them on to me. (I bartered an arm & a leg for them.) The bump could have occurred while still in SEA. And then I would like to ask Jean what is it about the pendokok that might suggest Riau as place of origin above Sulawesi. It seems I have underestimated the pendokok as a part of the keris that one can get clues from. This is once again most interesting. Jean mentioned the timpalaja as meaning "roof ridge" (the pattern at the base of the blade). I found an alternative unjung gunung, meaning "mountain peak". I assume these are from two different languages, indicating the very same thing. Tebba jampu and wengkon I could not fathom. AFAIK wengkon is part of the description of a blade pattern (pamor). Could you come in here please, Jean? Cheers Johan

19th October 2016, 11:19 AM	#11
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thank you Jean & Kai, I have taken serious note of your helpful comments and am amplifying my own personal keris dictionary with your help. One of my remaining questions is about the "gold" mendak/pendokok. I'm not saying it is impossible that my cousin could be mistaken, but I'm now thinking along the lines of "gilded" instead, as a possible explanation for the positive acid test that he reported. Was gilding practised in mid-19th century by the empus? Does the gilded (if that is the case) mendak fit in with the class of this keris, or with the keris-crafting practices of those days? Secondly, coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance? Any ideas about the wood type of the hilt and gandar? I myself am tempted to call the hilt kemuning, but I do not have a clue with regards to the gandar. Cheers Johan