1780's Brit/Irish/American? cavalry sword

Will M · 13th June 2016, 04:37 PM

Shows leather shrinking and old black finish worn off and encrusting the grip wires. Leather is not completely hard as one would expect if over 200 years old.
Always good to take a second, third look at things as I now see the grip covering not to be original but has age.

Will M · 13th June 2016, 04:50 PM

Leather scabbard is original and once had a metal drag.

M ELEY · 13th June 2016, 07:20 PM

Could Wyatt be the merchant that sold the sword? Many guns of the period were marked not by the maker, but by the Birmingham merchants that sold the goods to the clientele. Perhaps a search of merchants for the time period might yield something?

Jim McDougall · 14th June 2016, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Could Wyatt be the merchant that sold the sword? Many guns of the period were marked not by the maker, but by the Birmingham merchants that sold the goods to the clientele. Perhaps a search of merchants for the time period might yield something?

Well made point Mark. In many cases not only in England, but Germany and others, blades were indeed marked by retailers or 'sword slippers', who acquired the blades and components from suppliers. In England for example, was the well known J J Runkel, whose name appeared on so many swords he was long thought to be a maker. He simply imported blades from his contacts in Germany, as was a common practice there over the years.
In Germany, P. Knecht was a merchandiser of swords, not a maker, but his name is profusely seen on blades.

I think C.C. suggested "Swords for Sea Service".....perhaps something there or in Southwick? I do not have these with me presently as the bookmobile is on the move and weight & balance did not permit as many books as I would like.

Roland_M · 14th June 2016, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

In Germany, P. Knecht was a merchandiser of swords, not a maker, but his name is profusely seen on blades.

Peter Knecht was a "Schwertfeger" (there is no translation for this term).

The job of a "Schwertfeger" (direct translated = Swordcleaner) is to polish the surface, put blade and handle together and fit the blade into the scabbard. In most cases the "Schwertfeger" also sell the finished sword and often was more famous and earned much more money than the blacksmith itself. He was a merchandiser and artisan in one.

Roland

Hotspur · 14th June 2016, 05:00 PM

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...nfo&highlight=

Quote:

His first queries (found thus far) began in Feb. 2002 on sfi forum; there a very spirited discussion compiled much data similar to what we added here.

Do you have a link to the 2002 thread?

Cheers

GC

Jim McDougall · 14th June 2016, 05:46 PM

Roland, thank you so much for the proper explanation and perfectly explained description of the activity of Knecht. I believe that those very circumstances were much more common virtually in all countries with those assembling swords and those smiths who provided them. As American colonists were not only British, but European as well, these situations certainly prevailed here.

There fore Mark's suggestion of searching merchants records is well placed and perhaps why the name Wyatt is not found in makers lists, but probably in the kind of circumstances shown by Ibrahiim's pertinent entry.

Glen, I was hoping you might enter in here, as when it comes to swords in these fields, your knowledge and expertise are well known in these forums.
Thank you for linking the 2002 discussions. I am always happy to see old threads revived and 'cold cases' revisited, as often new evidence and examples can be brought together with the older material.

13th June 2016, 04:37 PM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Shows leather shrinking and old black finish worn off and encrusting the grip wires. Leather is not completely hard as one would expect if over 200 years old. Always good to take a second, third look at things as I now see the grip covering not to be original but has age. Attached Images

13th June 2016, 04:50 PM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Leather scabbard is original and once had a metal drag. Attached Images

13th June 2016, 07:20 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Could Wyatt be the merchant that sold the sword? Many guns of the period were marked not by the maker, but by the Birmingham merchants that sold the goods to the clientele. Perhaps a search of merchants for the time period might yield something?

14th June 2016, 05:46 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Roland, thank you so much for the proper explanation and perfectly explained description of the activity of Knecht. I believe that those very circumstances were much more common virtually in all countries with those assembling swords and those smiths who provided them. As American colonists were not only British, but European as well, these situations certainly prevailed here. There fore Mark's suggestion of searching merchants records is well placed and perhaps why the name Wyatt is not found in makers lists, but probably in the kind of circumstances shown by Ibrahiim's pertinent entry. Glen, I was hoping you might enter in here, as when it comes to swords in these fields, your knowledge and expertise are well known in these forums. Thank you for linking the 2002 discussions. I am always happy to see old threads revived and 'cold cases' revisited, as often new evidence and examples can be brought together with the older material.