Ancient Bronze '' Keris '' found in Bujang Valley Malaysia

HangPC2 · 25th April 2016, 04:53 AM

Location : Lembah Bujang ''Bujang Valley'' Kedah, Malaysia

Credit : Lang Kataha

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2016, 08:53 AM

Interesting.

Do we have details of the finding and results of examination?

David · 25th April 2016, 02:03 PM

Well, i see a rusty wavy dagger, but i don't see a keris.

ariel · 25th April 2016, 02:28 PM

AFAIK, bronze does not rust. Is it iron?

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2016, 10:56 PM

Yes David, correct, but we do have a flamboyant blade in something that purports to be very old, the Bujang Valley culture endured for a reasonably long time, so it would be nice to know a bit about this find. Especially so since in Indonesia falsification of such finds, mostly for the purpose of marketing forgeries, is not unknown.

Ariel, I think we may find that the rust coloured deposits are from earth adhesions. There is another possibility, and that is that the item in question was buried together with iron objects, and the rusting iron has adhered to the metal of the dagger; I have a Majapahit era bell that has a similar rust coloured stain.

ariel · 26th April 2016, 01:04 AM

That sounds very reasonable. Thanks Alan.

David · 26th April 2016, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes David, correct, but we do have a flamboyant blade in something that purports to be very old, the Bujang Valley culture endured for a reasonably long time, so it would be nice to know a bit about this find.

Absolutely. Sorry if my response led you to believe i thought otherwise.

HangPC2 · 27th April 2016, 06:49 AM

Buddha ?

HangPC2 · 27th April 2016, 11:17 AM

Update (27/4/2016)

http://i68.tinypic.com/29vgd2t.jpg

ariel · 27th April 2016, 09:39 PM

My antennae are still twitching...
I thought that metal scabbards were made only in the 19th ( or later) century Europe.
Am I wrong?

Timo Nieminen · 28th April 2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My antennae are still twitching...
I thought that metal scabbards were made only in the 19th ( or later) century Europe.
Am I wrong?

There are some Bronze Age Chinese bronze scabbards. Wasn't the usual practice, but sometimes done.

ariel · 29th April 2016, 12:28 AM

Sorry, unedited post managed to slide thru:-(((

ariel · 29th April 2016, 12:29 AM

Just to think that Lew Nolan was tearing his hair out at the stupidity of British military regulations that introduced edge-dulling metal scabbards!

But apparently the Chinese beat the Brits to it:-)

Timo Nieminen · 30th April 2016, 05:45 AM

There are Iron Age Celtic scabbards described as "all metal", usually iron, but sometimes bronze or iron and bronze. I don't know whether they're really all-iron, or iron-covered wooden cores, or lined.

19th century British iron scabbards I've seen had (or were supposed to have) wooden liners to keep the edge away from the iron. The problem is that the lining strips would wear, and not do their job properly. In 1880, they started to do scabbards with a solid wooden liner (rather than strips), so the late scabbards are basically iron/steel-covered wooden scabbards.

25th April 2016, 04:53 AM	#1
HangPC2 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 64	Ancient Bronze '' Keris '' found in Bujang Valley Malaysia Location : Lembah Bujang ''Bujang Valley'' Kedah, Malaysia Credit : Lang Kataha

27th April 2016, 06:49 AM	#8
HangPC2 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 64	Buddha ? Last edited by HangPC2; 27th April 2016 at 11:20 AM.

25th April 2016, 08:53 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Interesting. Do we have details of the finding and results of examination?

25th April 2016, 02:03 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	Well, i see a rusty wavy dagger, but i don't see a keris.

25th April 2016, 02:28 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	AFAIK, bronze does not rust. Is it iron?

25th April 2016, 10:56 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Yes David, correct, but we do have a flamboyant blade in something that purports to be very old, the Bujang Valley culture endured for a reasonably long time, so it would be nice to know a bit about this find. Especially so since in Indonesia falsification of such finds, mostly for the purpose of marketing forgeries, is not unknown. Ariel, I think we may find that the rust coloured deposits are from earth adhesions. There is another possibility, and that is that the item in question was buried together with iron objects, and the rusting iron has adhered to the metal of the dagger; I have a Majapahit era bell that has a similar rust coloured stain.

26th April 2016, 01:04 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That sounds very reasonable. Thanks Alan.

27th April 2016, 11:17 AM	#9
HangPC2 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 64	Update (27/4/2016) http://i68.tinypic.com/29vgd2t.jpg

27th April 2016, 09:39 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My antennae are still twitching... I thought that metal scabbards were made only in the 19th ( or later) century Europe. Am I wrong?

29th April 2016, 12:28 AM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry, unedited post managed to slide thru:-(((

29th April 2016, 12:29 AM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just to think that Lew Nolan was tearing his hair out at the stupidity of British military regulations that introduced edge-dulling metal scabbards! But apparently the Chinese beat the Brits to it:-)

30th April 2016, 05:45 AM	#14
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	There are Iron Age Celtic scabbards described as "all metal", usually iron, but sometimes bronze or iron and bronze. I don't know whether they're really all-iron, or iron-covered wooden cores, or lined. 19th century British iron scabbards I've seen had (or were supposed to have) wooden liners to keep the edge away from the iron. The problem is that the lining strips would wear, and not do their job properly. In 1880, they started to do scabbards with a solid wooden liner (rather than strips), so the late scabbards are basically iron/steel-covered wooden scabbards.