TEPPO WITH HEAVY BARREL NEED TRANSLATION

Cerjak · 25th April 2015, 01:12 PM

It is a new addition in my collection a very nice teppo with heavy barrel.
Overall 97 cm.
It would be great if a menber could give me a translation for the marks found on the barrel
Any comment on it would be welcome.
Best CERJAK

Cerjak · 25th April 2015, 01:46 PM

MORE PICS

Cerjak · 25th April 2015, 04:26 PM

one more

Cerjak · 26th April 2015, 07:33 PM

I found similar teppo classified as Mino Tetsupo
The matchlocks made at Mino are heavy and appear to be very durable .
I seems that there is'nt so much information and pictures about this Mino Tetsupo type.

estcrh · 27th April 2015, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

It is a new addition in my collection a very nice teppo with heavy barrel.

Very nice, it appears to be missing the barrel protector and wedge that holds it in place, have you tried to remove the barrel to see if it is signed? It also appears to be a "Seki" teppo and not "Mino".

Cerjak · 27th April 2015, 04:17 PM

Hi estcrh,

Thank you for your comment ,It is still not clear for me ,could you tell me which are the differences between this 2 types in my eyes and based only on the following pictures it seems to be the same ?
I will try to remove the barrel to see if there is a signature.

From Nihonto forum member's I had this translation :
The numbers say 壬申 802.
This gun barrel was recorded in one of the Meiji general registration round-ups starting in 1873.
Probably the famous first one in 1873, as that was a Jinshin 壬申 year.

新治懸　Niihari Ken, the old/extinct name for an area straddling Ibaraki and Chiba.

Best CERJAK

estcrh · 27th April 2015, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi estcrh,

Thank you for your comment ,It is still not clear for me ,could you tell me which are the differences between this 2 types in my eyes and based only on the following pictures it seems to be the same ?

Cerjak, were are you getting your pictures from, I think they are mislabled, this is directly from the original web site.

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Black.../varieties.htm

Cerjak · 27th April 2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Cerjak, were are you getting your pictures from, I think they are mislabled, this is directly from the original web site.

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Black.../varieties.htm

I got it from this site

http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinawajyu/index.htm

estcrh · 27th April 2015, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

I got it from this site

http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinawajyu/index.htm

There seems to be some sort of descrepency.

rickystl · 27th April 2015, 05:40 PM

Hi Cerjak. That is a really nice Teppo. And appears in good condition. The engraving on the barrel is done in very good taste. Your's is my favorite style with the iron trigger guard and the fancy trigger. Again, nice addition.
While I can't help with any translation/specific identification, there is a good chance there is a maker ID or other information on one of the lower flats of the barrel, behind the lock. There was on my Teppo. If you want some help taking the barrel off, let me know. It's a bit tricky. Took me a half day to figure it out. LOL

and I have photos. The barrel does not come off the way you would first guess. Rick.

Cerjak · 27th April 2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Cerjak. That is a really nice Teppo. And appears in good condition. The engraving on the barrel is done in very good taste. Your's is my favorite style with the iron trigger guard and the fancy trigger. Again, nice addition.
While I can't help with any translation/specific identification, there is a good chance there is a maker ID or other information on one of the lower flats of the barrel, behind the lock. There was on my Teppo. If you want some help taking the barrel off, let me know. It's a bit tricky. Took me a half day to figure it out. LOL

and I have photos. The barrel does not come off the way you would first guess. Rick.

Hi Rick

I hope i will not have problem with my barrel when I will remove it ,Your pictures would be welcome.

Best

Cerjak

Cerjak · 27th April 2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

There seems to be some sort of descrepency.

So where are the good information ?

Cerjak · 27th April 2015, 06:24 PM

Additional information I have just received

"Hello Cerjac, this type of gun was made in Yonezawa from the early 1600s and followed a pattern (iron ramrod, etc.) that was distinct from other Japanese Tanegashima type guns and kept up until the late 1860s. Seki-Ryu, like yours, was almost exactly the same shape and style although more decorated, and again they followed roughly the same spec. The signature may help us to narrow down the date, but do not expect too much. We can say that your gun was made probably in late Edo, ie 1800-1850, but possibly earlier."

estcrh · 28th April 2015, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Additional information I have just received

"Hello Cerjac, this type of gun was made in Yonezawa from the early 1600s and followed a pattern (iron ramrod, etc.) that was distinct from other Japanese Tanegashima type guns and kept up until the late 1860s. Seki-Ryu, like yours, was almost exactly the same shape and style although more decorated, and again they followed roughly the same spec. The signature may help us to narrow down the date, but do not expect too much. We can say that your gun was made probably in late Edo, ie 1800-1850, but possibly earlier."

Here is the seki and yonezawa compared. Yours may be missing a barrel band.

Cerjak · 28th April 2015, 03:21 PM

Dear estcrh,
I can notice that the SEKI type is more like mine with a shorter “dai”,also the shape from the “Karakuri” is different the pictures are not so good but you could see that the Seki “Karakuri” looks more similar too.
I would be interested to find better pictures to see more examples but based on this photos the Seki seems to be the good model.
I have remove the barrel but unfortunately there is not any more marks.

Best

Cerjak

Cerjak · 1st May 2015, 12:04 PM

Two answers from Nihonto Message Board

"The numbers say 壬申 802.
This gun barrel was recorded in one of the Meiji general registration round-ups starting in 1873."

"Probably the famous first one in 1873, as that was a Jinshin 壬申 year.

Something like X治懸　in Imabari Ken, but the first character of the old name of the Prefecture eludes me. "

25th April 2015, 01:12 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	TEPPO WITH HEAVY BARREL NEED TRANSLATION It is a new addition in my collection a very nice teppo with heavy barrel. Overall 97 cm. It would be great if a menber could give me a translation for the marks found on the barrel Any comment on it would be welcome. Best CERJAK Attached Images

25th April 2015, 01:46 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	more pics MORE PICS Attached Images

25th April 2015, 04:26 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	ONE MORE PIC one more Attached Images

26th April 2015, 07:33 PM	#4
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	I found similar teppo classified as Mino Tetsupo The matchlocks made at Mino are heavy and appear to be very durable . I seems that there is'nt so much information and pictures about this Mino Tetsupo type. Attached Images

27th April 2015, 04:17 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi estcrh, Thank you for your comment ,It is still not clear for me ,could you tell me which are the differences between this 2 types in my eyes and based only on the following pictures it seems to be the same ? I will try to remove the barrel to see if there is a signature. From Nihonto forum member's I had this translation : The numbers say 壬申 802. This gun barrel was recorded in one of the Meiji general registration round-ups starting in 1873. Probably the famous first one in 1873, as that was a Jinshin 壬申 year. 新治懸　Niihari Ken, the old/extinct name for an area straddling Ibaraki and Chiba. Best CERJAK Attached Images

27th April 2015, 05:40 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Cerjak. That is a really nice Teppo. And appears in good condition. The engraving on the barrel is done in very good taste. Your's is my favorite style with the iron trigger guard and the fancy trigger. Again, nice addition. While I can't help with any translation/specific identification, there is a good chance there is a maker ID or other information on one of the lower flats of the barrel, behind the lock. There was on my Teppo. If you want some help taking the barrel off, let me know. It's a bit tricky. Took me a half day to figure it out. LOL and I have photos. The barrel does not come off the way you would first guess. Rick.

27th April 2015, 06:24 PM	#13
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Additional information I have just received "Hello Cerjac, this type of gun was made in Yonezawa from the early 1600s and followed a pattern (iron ramrod, etc.) that was distinct from other Japanese Tanegashima type guns and kept up until the late 1860s. Seki-Ryu, like yours, was almost exactly the same shape and style although more decorated, and again they followed roughly the same spec. The signature may help us to narrow down the date, but do not expect too much. We can say that your gun was made probably in late Edo, ie 1800-1850, but possibly earlier."

28th April 2015, 03:21 PM	#15
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Dear estcrh, I can notice that the SEKI type is more like mine with a shorter “dai”,also the shape from the “Karakuri” is different the pictures are not so good but you could see that the Seki “Karakuri” looks more similar too. I would be interested to find better pictures to see more examples but based on this photos the Seki seems to be the good model. I have remove the barrel but unfortunately there is not any more marks. Best Cerjak Attached Images

1st May 2015, 12:04 PM	#16
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	translation found ! Two answers from Nihonto Message Board "The numbers say 壬申 802. This gun barrel was recorded in one of the Meiji general registration round-ups starting in 1873." "Probably the famous first one in 1873, as that was a Jinshin 壬申 year. Something like X治懸　in Imabari Ken, but the first character of the old name of the Prefecture eludes me. "