Flint with lead holder

Marcus den toom · 24th August 2014, 08:59 PM

I boughed this fine specimen from a metal detector enthausiast and he found them near the city of Gorichem in the Netherlands. This same guy has found several pieces of clod shot which are visble in this thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18681).
This flint with it original lead holder is almost complete with only missing one lead strap at the left side. These flints are very hard to find intact but they appear from time to time at the Dutch battlegrounds of the Golden ages. The war against the Spanish was held against many city´samong them Gorichem which was reclaimed by the "water Geuzen" (Rebel forces) and the grand army of the Prince of Nassau. This flint with holder could have been used by these forces. The battle was foughed on the 26th of June 1572. EDIT "as Adrian correctly remarked, the flintlock was not yet made in this period of time, my appologies for this misinformation"

adrian · 25th August 2014, 12:47 PM

If this is from a flintlock firearm doesn't that battle (1572) pre date the regular use of such mechanisms? I understand that the use of lead, as opposed to leather, for encasing the flint is not uncommon throughout the flintlock period, some still do this nowadays - but I have not seen an ornate one like this before, it is most interesting.

Marcus den toom · 25th August 2014, 01:33 PM

You are absolutely right Adrian, such a stupid mistake of me

Yes the first flintlock was made in 1610 in France... i don't know about the Snaphance locks, but a more likely date would be around 1650-1700.

fernando · 25th August 2014, 03:19 PM

A rather peculiar item, Marcus,
Can't you get a (even ) more clear picture ?
Sorry the impertinence but, could it be that the piece of lead was already decorated before it was trimmed for the flint holding effect ?

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 03:36 PM

Hi Marcus,

Thousands of those lead-wrapped flints used in the cocks of military flintlock muskets are found by farmers every year; several of them are preserved in The MICHAEL TRÖMNER COLLECTION.

Only the so-called BLOND flints, also called HORN flints, are quite rare to detect. The best chances to detect blond flints are when searching in France (they were quarried in great numbers near St. Etienne), Belgium, Germany and Austria.
There are dozens of all sizes of blond flints in my collection.

The GRAY (in British English: grey) and BROWNISH colored flints, and especially the BLACK colored Podolian (German: podolisch) types, are very common; they were mostly used in the Netherlands and in the area of what is Great Britain and Ireland today.

Prices for the latter vary from 1-5 euros per piece.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 03:59 PM

A few more, the last two from my my collection.

m

fernando · 25th August 2014, 05:12 PM

Yes, Michl,
But none of those lead cases now posted is decorated; am i right ?

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 05:45 PM

Of course you're right, Nando,

They must be on some older back-up disc dating back about 8 years, and saving my data from an earlier computer of mine.

Actually I have seen many of them but never integrated one with my collection, as they strictly belong to the Ottoman cultural area starting with Romania, Macedonia and Albania, instead of the Western European sphere.

I attached a sample which I copied from this site:
http://www.echad.info/uifinds/?to=vi...&find_id=45369

For more on Western gun flints and their usually undecorated coatings or wrappings, please cf.:
http://www.minutemantreasures.com/5139/11401.html

Some samples from the latter site attached below.

Best,
m

24th August 2014, 08:59 PM	#1
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Flint with lead holder I boughed this fine specimen from a metal detector enthausiast and he found them near the city of Gorichem in the Netherlands. This same guy has found several pieces of clod shot which are visble in this thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18681). This flint with it original lead holder is almost complete with only missing one lead strap at the left side. These flints are very hard to find intact but they appear from time to time at the Dutch battlegrounds of the Golden ages. The war against the Spanish was held against many city´samong them Gorichem which was reclaimed by the "water Geuzen" (Rebel forces) and the grand army of the Prince of Nassau. This flint with holder could have been used by these forces. The battle was foughed on the 26th of June 1572. EDIT "as Adrian correctly remarked, the flintlock was not yet made in this period of time, my appologies for this misinformation" Last edited by Marcus den toom; 25th August 2014 at 01:56 PM.

25th August 2014, 03:36 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Marcus, Thousands of those lead-wrapped flints used in the cocks of military flintlock muskets are found by farmers every year; several of them are preserved in The MICHAEL TRÖMNER COLLECTION. Only the so-called BLOND flints, also called HORN flints, are quite rare to detect. The best chances to detect blond flints are when searching in France (they were quarried in great numbers near St. Etienne), Belgium, Germany and Austria. There are dozens of all sizes of blond flints in my collection. The GRAY (in British English: grey) and BROWNISH colored flints, and especially the BLACK colored Podolian (German: podolisch) types, are very common; they were mostly used in the Netherlands and in the area of what is Great Britain and Ireland today. Prices for the latter vary from 1-5 euros per piece. Best, Michael Attached Images

25th August 2014, 03:59 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A few more, the last two from my my collection. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th August 2014 at 04:27 PM.

25th August 2014, 05:45 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Of course you're right, Nando, They must be on some older back-up disc dating back about 8 years, and saving my data from an earlier computer of mine. Actually I have seen many of them but never integrated one with my collection, as they strictly belong to the Ottoman cultural area starting with Romania, Macedonia and Albania, instead of the Western European sphere. I attached a sample which I copied from this site: http://www.echad.info/uifinds/?to=vi...&find_id=45369 For more on Western gun flints and their usually undecorated coatings or wrappings, please cf.: http://www.minutemantreasures.com/5139/11401.html Some samples from the latter site attached below. Best, m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th August 2014 at 06:59 PM.

25th August 2014, 12:47 PM	#2
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	If this is from a flintlock firearm doesn't that battle (1572) pre date the regular use of such mechanisms? I understand that the use of lead, as opposed to leather, for encasing the flint is not uncommon throughout the flintlock period, some still do this nowadays - but I have not seen an ornate one like this before, it is most interesting.

25th August 2014, 01:33 PM	#3
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	You are absolutely right Adrian, such a stupid mistake of me Yes the first flintlock was made in 1610 in France... i don't know about the Snaphance locks, but a more likely date would be around 1650-1700.

25th August 2014, 03:19 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A rather peculiar item, Marcus, Can't you get a (even ) more clear picture ? Sorry the impertinence but, could it be that the piece of lead was already decorated before it was trimmed for the flint holding effect ?

25th August 2014, 05:12 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes, Michl, But none of those lead cases now posted is decorated; am i right ?