The Omani Sayf. ( The Omani Straight Dancing Sword)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

You were also the only person in this thread to repeatedly refer to it as straight!

I agree with your definition of it. Ive been trying to point it out to you through out this thread after all..


I would give the same definition for this one he also carry's in this picture.... Only it will be a straight probably European blade. But a weapon clearly.

Or does that logic still escape you?

I suspect it will do, O well, you cant help everyone..

Spiral

Salaams Spiral; will you please stop adding insulting notations to your posts such as;

Or does that logic still escape you?

I suspect it will do, O well, you cant help everyone..

In reference to the straight blade held by your latest photograph subject on the right is Tippu Tip the slaver... he holds a straight dancing sword in this picture and in others a curved Kattara..

The Straight sword is not for fighting. Not only is the man as blind as a bat at this stage in his life but the blade is flexible for pageants and marchpast only...meetings with other dignitories ...Eid celebrations ..and weddings...but not fighting.

There is a strong chance that this belongs to Wali Mohd sitting next to him. These blades are not at all European but made in Omani workshops or by special commission by Zutoot wandering gypsies in Oman. The essential ingredient is the flexible, two edged, sharp blade with spatulate tip on a long Omani Hilt. They are Omani blades.

The use of European blades was confined to the Slavers curved Kattara not the dancing sword. (This in fact has another interpretation in a single 17th century quote from a Dutch visitor however, he was referring to alternative blades on the Old Omani Battle Sword as being occasionally European but that is still under review and anyway set outside the parameters of dancing sword blades.)

In all cases all of these swords were used as Badge of Office for important dignitories. All.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Spiral; will you please stop adding insulting notations to your posts such as;

Or does that logic still escape you?

I suspect it will do, O well, you cant help everyone..

.

Sorry if you feel insulted, that wasn't my intention.

It to me seems that state of play.

Anyway, Ill bow out for the time being until you or others provide fresh material . to breathe some fresh air into this thread.

Its rather like chewing old dry bread.

spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Spiral, There it is again...

I have simply requested you dip your pen in civil ink... The subject is more complex than your incessant need to stamp your feet... This is not a contest..it is a team effort. Some of what you say is relevant but when you run out of content the tendency is to revert to disrespectful comment... off topic and not relevant to the discussion. If you wish to leave the thread that is entirely up to you... or you could consider your input and continue...The onus is on everyone to add fresh material and not to complain about the messenger... It is the thread we are trying to promote ... not ambush the author.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

In reference to the straight blade held by your latest photograph subject on the right is Tippu Tip the slaver... he holds a straight dancing sword in this picture and in others a curved Kattara..

The Straight sword is not for fighting. Not only is the man as blind as a bat at this stage in his life but the blade is flexible for pageants and marchpast only...meetings with other dignitories ...Eid celebrations ..and weddings...but not fighting.

There is a strong chance that this belongs to Wali Mohd sitting next to him. These blades are not at all European but made in Omani workshops or by special commission by Zutoot wandering gypsies in Oman. The essential ingredient is the flexible, two edged, sharp blade with spatulate tip on a long Omani Hilt. They are Omani blades.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

This notion about blade types within scabbards and who owned whose sword is not fact. No one knows what blades are hidden within these scabbards nor who owned them. At face value the owner of the sword is each holding their own and I doubt these are props in the context of this photo spoken about. Equally valid suggestions are noted with reference to the photos and the context of the harsh reality in the day but are dismissed without fact.

For the most part the thread is just repeated and repeated notions that no other straight sword in the form existed other than a sword that bends and was used for dance...but without fact...no other sword presented or notion suggested with validity is accepted, just the same old non acceptance...the thread will never move forward with this one eyed view.

With all that has been presented thus far, no one knows when the long handled sword became a pure dance only sword that it is known for today.

I have held and owned both types, more than enough of each. One of the dance swords I consider a master piece from antiquity, some of the fighting swords being important examples. No previous amount of rude, uncivil, inflaming or slanderous comments while change the fighting swords in to Souk swords.
The master piece dance sword has a blade type not even mentioned within these pages. I will not offer it for discussion until this silly notion that no fighting sword of the long handled type ever existed. Knowing both types, I can accept dance only sword of today was drawn from fighting types and at one time they existed side by side until the earlier type became unaccepted, molded in to the requirements of a more modern time.

To date, all that has been presented, apart from one of the fighting types I shared have appeare to be no more than modern examples, modern masterpieces, poor quality and bad taste souk swords that do not resemble anything like the dance swords or fighting sword from antiquity, along with photos and pictures drawn from the internet with a false claim of what may lay within the original sheaths and period context from which the artist made his impression.
For the most it appears no first hand personal examples are presented in context highlighting required aspects have been shown...perhaps just a couple of simple profile shots of rebound hilts???... Nothing in detail or personal context of the type meant to be a dance sword.

Ibrahiim, please bring your best complete dance sword from antiquity to the table for dissection. One we can discuss at length and draw from. Lets discuss one for a little while and look at subject matter rather than what MIGHT have been.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Spiral, There it is again...

I have simply requested you dip your pen in civil ink... The subject is more complex than your incessant need to stamp your feet... This is not a contest..it is a team effort. Some of what you say is relevant but when you run out of content the tendency is to revert to disrespectful comment... off topic and not relevant to the discussion. If you wish to leave the thread that is entirely up to you... or you could consider your input and continue...The onus is on everyone to add fresh material and not to complain about the messenger... It is the thread we are trying to promote ... not ambush the author.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Let's please leave moderation duties to the moderators.

[Emanuel]

And two more drawings of a younger Tippu Tip.

A frontal drawing by the Belgian M. Louis Amelot and a profile by the Swede M. Gleerup, both involved in expeditions in East Africa in the mid-late 19th century.
Amazing what can be found on Google Books...

Perhaps this confirms that the gaunt gentleman in #160 is not Tippu Tip