Three Paiwan kives for comment

[Sajen]

Hello,

I have recently purchased three antique and genuine (IMHO) Paiwan knives. Two of them need some restore job at the scabbards. All informations I have are from old threads of this forum and I hope that the experts on this rare knives will jump in and will be able to give me some further informations but all other comments are welcome.
Here the pictures of the first one.

[Sajen]

And here the pictures of the two others.

[VANDOO]

THREE VERY NICE EXAMPLES AND ALL DIFFERENT A BONUS THE FIRST ONE HAS AN UNUSUAL BLADE TIP IT KIND OF REMINDS ME OF A JAPANESE BLADE THE OTHER TWO BLADES ARE OF A MORE NORMAL FORM. VERY GOOD AGE AND WORKMANSHIP ON ALL THREE. THE INLAY OF SHELL IS INTERESTING AND SHOULD HELP THOSE WITH EXPERTESE IN THIS FIELD IDENTIFY THEM FOR YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME CLOSEUPS OF THE SHELL INLAYED AREAS AND THE CREATURE NEAR THE TIP OF THE SHORTER KNIFE IN YOUR PICTURE OF TWO TOGETHER. CONGRADULATIONS VERY NICE FINDS.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THREE VERY NICE EXAMPLES AND ALL DIFFERENT A BONUS THE FIRST ONE HAS AN UNUSUAL BLADE TIP IT KIND OF REMINDS ME OF A JAPANESE BLADE THE OTHER TWO BLADES ARE OF A MORE NORMAL FORM. VERY GOOD AGE AND WORKMANSHIP ON ALL THREE. THE INLAY OF SHELL IS INTERESTING AND SHOULD HELP THOSE WITH EXPERTESE IN THIS FIELD IDENTIFY THEM FOR YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME CLOSEUPS OF THE SHELL INLAYED AREAS AND THE CREATURE NEAR THE TIP OF THE SHORTER KNIFE IN YOUR PICTURE OF TWO TOGETHER. CONGRADULATIONS VERY NICE FINDS.

Thank you Barry! For the different blade tip look to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=taiwan
By all old threads I haven't seen scabbards with shell inlays, maybe a sign for taken heads? But this is only a guess. The creature on the red scabbard seems to be the same as on the other one, a snake or naga, see this thread, post #4: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan
Soon as I have them in hand I will post the requested close ups.
Here some other informative threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=taiwan
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=rukai

Regards,
Detlef

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Found this photograph which I thought may be of interest.
Regards,
Norman.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Found this photograph which I thought may be of interest.
Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,

would be interesting to which ethnic group this man belong. Do you have a information?

Regards,
Detlef

[VANDOO]

THIS SNAKE LIKE CARVING IS OFTEN ENCOUNTERED ON THEIR SWORDS BUT IF THERE IS A LEGEND, NAME OR STORY I AM NOT AWARE OF IT. BEING A ZOOLOGY MAJOR IT HAS ALWAYS REMINDED ME OF A PLANARIAN FLATWORM. WE HAD SOME FUN WITH THEM SPLIT ONES HEAD AND IT GROWS TWO HEADS VERY IMPRESSIVE REGENERATIVE POWERS. A PICTURE OF THE CRITTER WITH 2 EYESPOTS.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THIS SNAKE LIKE CARVING IS OFTEN ENCOUNTERED ON THEIR SWORDS BUT IF THERE IS A LEGEND, NAME OR STORY I AM NOT AWARE OF IT. BEING A ZOOLOGY MAJOR IT HAS ALWAYS REMINDED ME OF A PLANARIAN FLATWORM. WE HAD SOME FUN WITH THEM SPLIT ONES HEAD AND IT GROWS TWO HEADS VERY IMPRESSIVE REGENERATIVE POWERS. A PICTURE OF THE CRITTER WITH 2 EYESPOTS.

Barry, I only can write what I have read in the above given threads from Yuanzhumin and others. This is the "hundred pace snake" ( Deinagkistrodon acutus), "named like this because once you have been beaten you only can walk one hundred paces before fallen down, dead" *Yuanzhumin*. This is the anchestor of their nobility. Knives which have the snake on the scabbard are only allowed to be worn by nobility men.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

So when I have read correct what Yuanzhumin and Varta have written in older threads is the first sword a war or fighting kife and the two others are hunting knives from nobility men. Still hope that the both still active here in the forum and jump in and comment.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Detlef,
All the info I can find is, Paiwan Chief Taiwan 1927, apologies I cannot be of more help.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Detlef,
All the info I can find is, Paiwan Chief Taiwan 1927, apologies I cannot be of more help.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,

it's a pity! Hopefully I am waiting for response of our experts in this field!

Regards,
Detlef

[KuKulzA28]

All I can say is... they look like good blades.

They look Paiwanese, but Rukai and Puyuma (being related) have similar designs and I'm trying to get better at distinguishing. I've also noticed by the way that oftentimes Western collectors are very keen on distinguishing between different types, where-as a local might just call it x y or z, end of story.

I find it interesting that the paiwan were actually a more hierarchical (matrilineal) society and had a more organized military than many other tribes. They used long spears, shields, takit, and bows and guns. I've often wondered what has been lost... Taiwanese aborigines, on the plains, were known for their archery skill, as well as sparring with sticks to the beat of drums, and for their spearplay and wrestling. As with many aboriginal cultures, a lot of martial practice has been lost, even moreso than a lot of "civilizations" which have also lost a lot of their martial traditions.

I wonder, however, how the southern cultures came to adopt the almost zhibeidao or wakizashi looking blades, is it a relic of ancient Chinese influences from say the Han or Tang Dynasty???
In the north areas, "Atayal" and related groups tended to use curved blades, called laraw in some dialects. There are straighter versions of laraw which resemble some Taiwanese (Han) and southern Chinese knives and shortswords, like the butterfly sword.. particularly blades often attributed to the Sakizaya. The laraw topuw, the "radish" shaped cleaver-like blade also looks a lot like blades sometimes used a polearms in the old days by Taiwanese militia.
Having said that, most Southern Chinese blades that did have sockets had wooden handles, where-as many Taiwanese aborigine blades had socket-handles like the Philippine tribes of the Luzon... Taiwanese smithying is a bit of a mystery, often Han settlers made the blades for them, yet there was definitely ethnic preferences and a design in mind.... and there is some evidence of metal working before Han settlement... the creation and abandonment of pottery in areas... the past of a maritime culture but replaced by a general fear of the sea... mysteries we may never unravel.
Taiwan has a rich martial history, which is maybe under appreciated. Maybe varta or yuanzhumin will comment, they know quite a bit about this stuff.

[Sajen]

Thank you KulKulzA for comment. I don't think that Varta will join in, I have contacted both by mail and he have responded by pm and have confirmed the Paiwan origin and have stated that they about average quality.
Still have the hope that Yuanzhumin will comment.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Have received the Paiwan knives and I am very pleased with them. Two sheaths need some restauration but I think this will be an easy job for my restorer. The inlays at the scabbards from two are from porcelain instead of shell.
Here at first some pictures from the one with the red painted scabbard with the hundred pace snake. The small missing wood piece at the scabbard will be restored. The rattan at the handle has a beautiful patina. The blade has received a first careful cleaning. The tip of the blade is broken.

[Sajen]

Here the pictures from the knife with the panel sheet at the scabbard. The complete knife has a enormous old patina. There is a small piece of missing wood at the same place like the two others but this piece is already a little bit patinated and I don't plan to restore this. On the wooden parts are remains of old red paint. There are engraved chinese (?) signs at the bulky part of the scabbard.

[Sajen]

And here some pictures from the knife with the demaged scabbard. I will post some new pictures after the scabbard is restored.