Moro Parade kris

DaveS · 31st January 2014, 10:49 PM

Here is a moro sword that must be either a parade kris or a presentation piece. It's the biggest one that I have ever seen. The 23 wave blade is 31 inches long, 39 inches overall with a danganan style pommel made of clamshell. The two end bands are suwassa with twisted brass wire on the grip. The scabbard is set with American dimes, some dating back to 1912. All in all, a very large moro sword, really too large for fighting.....Dave.

VANDOO · 31st January 2014, 11:08 PM

IT LOOKS LIKE EITHER A PRESENTATION PIECE OR ONE COMMISSIONED BY A HIGHER RANKING OFFICER LIKELY AMERICAN. APPEARS AN OLDER PIECE EARLY IN THE AMERICAN PRESENCE IN THE PHILIPPINES. ITS WELL MADE AND I BELIEVE THE COINS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE PERIOD AND NOT JUST SOMETHING ADDED LATER. THE BLADE IS WELL MADE AND CORRECT EXCEPT FOR ITS LARGE SIZE SO ITS NOT LIKELY A BATTLE PICK UP BUT A SPECIAL COMISSION. VERY NICE

CharlesS · 1st February 2014, 12:26 AM

Very impressive. I love the clamshell pommel.

David · 1st February 2014, 01:50 AM

Impressive indeed. Just a note that either this is not the original hilt or at least the baca-baca have been changed. The sheath seems to fit like a glove so i would image that it was indeed made specifically for this blade. The blade may be older than all the rest though. It's original intention may have been as a parade weapon or perhaps it was made for a very large man, but it seems to have found its way to being a parade blade none the less considering the suassa and clamshell. I wouldn't imaging that the American coins point to it being for an American. Dimes would not be considered a valuable token by an American, they are common and of low denomination, but they could more likely gain some kind of talismanic nature by a local Moro.

Nice find Dave!

Battara · 1st February 2014, 07:07 PM

Ok I hate to be the buzz kill but all of it appears to me to be of later origin.

The blade has pointed luks (curves), the baka-baka clamps are 1960s style (as David mentioned), and the scabbard is 1950s in style. As far as mounts are concerned, the ferrule and top mount remind me of 1960s and later work.

This all being said, it is possible that this was indeed made for a datu, but in more recent years.

Also good clamshell is hard to find.

CharlesS · 1st February 2014, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ok I hate to be the buzz kill but all of it appears to me to be of later origin, say, 1930s - 1940s.

The blade has pointed luks (curves), the baka-baka clamps are 1960s style (as David mentioned), and the scabbard is 1950s in style. As far as mounts are concerned, the ferrule and top mount remind me of 1960s and later work.

This all being said, it is possible that this was indeed made for a datu, but in more recent years.

Also good clamshell is hard to find.

To add to Jose's statement, the rattan is definitely later and has been tinted/dyed/stained to look old. I am not familiar with that style of hilt wrap...Jose may know more about that.

I still like that clamshell. It's still an impressive "size queen" special, but Jose may be right on the mark.

DaveS · 2nd February 2014, 02:32 AM

Jose: I guess I need some schooling on what constitutes a 1950s style of baka-baka, Obviously I have seen many later styles of clamps that are very thin and not of very high quality. But this piece when in the hand, the clamps don't look any different than many much older ones that we own. Just have no idea what a 50s style looks like, aside from the easily identified tourist pieces.........Dave.

Battara · 2nd February 2014, 07:54 AM

The lines and "X"s are not aligned with the top of the ganga. Also the "X"s are elongated like these. This style is still made today.

Also notice that the baka-bakas don't fit well (I noticed that gap between the front of the ganga and the baka-baka).

CharlesS · 2nd February 2014, 12:17 PM

The blade clearly has some age....is it possible it has been remounted?? The off baca-baca would certainly seem to indicate that, as would the hilt wrap, etc.

Battara · 3rd February 2014, 11:19 PM

I suppose it is possible that the blade could be from the 1930s at the earliest. That is when the separate ganga got lost and luks were getting pointy........

David · 4th February 2014, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I suppose it is possible that the blade could be from the 1930s at the earliest. That is when the separate ganga got lost and luks were getting pointy........

José, do you think that is a false line for the gangya then?
Dave, you have it in hand. Can you tell if it is a true separate gangya or not?

DaveS · 4th February 2014, 03:26 AM

David: No, it definitely is a two piece ganjya. Also, the luks, These pictures can be deceiving because when you see the kris in person they are NOT pointed..........Dave.

kai · 4th February 2014, 07:22 AM

I agree with Jose that the blade is clearly a late style - with the seperate gangya, I believe it's from the 1920-1930 period.

Regards,
Kai

Robert · 4th February 2014, 08:07 PM

Hello Dave, I also have to agree with Jose's evaluation on this. The blade just does not show the craftsmanship that one would expect on an older example. Another thing that seems off on this is that the medial ridge is almost completely straight where usually when these are present (on older blades) they follow the flow of the luks. This is just my opinion though and I could quite possibly be wrong.

Best,
Robert

David · 4th February 2014, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Another thing that seems off on this is that the medial ridge is almost completely straight where usually when these are present (on older blades) they follow the flow of the luks.

Good observation Robert.

31st January 2014, 10:49 PM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Moro Parade kris Here is a moro sword that must be either a parade kris or a presentation piece. It's the biggest one that I have ever seen. The 23 wave blade is 31 inches long, 39 inches overall with a danganan style pommel made of clamshell. The two end bands are suwassa with twisted brass wire on the grip. The scabbard is set with American dimes, some dating back to 1912. All in all, a very large moro sword, really too large for fighting.....Dave. Attached Images

31st January 2014, 11:08 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT LOOKS LIKE EITHER A PRESENTATION PIECE OR ONE COMMISSIONED BY A HIGHER RANKING OFFICER LIKELY AMERICAN. APPEARS AN OLDER PIECE EARLY IN THE AMERICAN PRESENCE IN THE PHILIPPINES. ITS WELL MADE AND I BELIEVE THE COINS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE PERIOD AND NOT JUST SOMETHING ADDED LATER. THE BLADE IS WELL MADE AND CORRECT EXCEPT FOR ITS LARGE SIZE SO ITS NOT LIKELY A BATTLE PICK UP BUT A SPECIAL COMISSION. VERY NICE

1st February 2014, 12:26 AM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Very impressive. I love the clamshell pommel.

1st February 2014, 01:50 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,101	Impressive indeed. Just a note that either this is not the original hilt or at least the baca-baca have been changed. The sheath seems to fit like a glove so i would image that it was indeed made specifically for this blade. The blade may be older than all the rest though. It's original intention may have been as a parade weapon or perhaps it was made for a very large man, but it seems to have found its way to being a parade blade none the less considering the suassa and clamshell. I wouldn't imaging that the American coins point to it being for an American. Dimes would not be considered a valuable token by an American, they are common and of low denomination, but they could more likely gain some kind of talismanic nature by a local Moro. Nice find Dave!

1st February 2014, 07:07 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,200	Ok I hate to be the buzz kill but all of it appears to me to be of later origin. The blade has pointed luks (curves), the baka-baka clamps are 1960s style (as David mentioned), and the scabbard is 1950s in style. As far as mounts are concerned, the ferrule and top mount remind me of 1960s and later work. This all being said, it is possible that this was indeed made for a datu, but in more recent years. Also good clamshell is hard to find.

2nd February 2014, 02:32 AM	#7
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Jose: I guess I need some schooling on what constitutes a 1950s style of baka-baka, Obviously I have seen many later styles of clamps that are very thin and not of very high quality. But this piece when in the hand, the clamps don't look any different than many much older ones that we own. Just have no idea what a 50s style looks like, aside from the easily identified tourist pieces.........Dave.

2nd February 2014, 07:54 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,200	The lines and "X"s are not aligned with the top of the ganga. Also the "X"s are elongated like these. This style is still made today. Also notice that the baka-bakas don't fit well (I noticed that gap between the front of the ganga and the baka-baka).

2nd February 2014, 12:17 PM	#9
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	The blade clearly has some age....is it possible it has been remounted?? The off baca-baca would certainly seem to indicate that, as would the hilt wrap, etc.

3rd February 2014, 11:19 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,200	I suppose it is possible that the blade could be from the 1930s at the earliest. That is when the separate ganga got lost and luks were getting pointy........

4th February 2014, 03:26 AM	#12
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	David: No, it definitely is a two piece ganjya. Also, the luks, These pictures can be deceiving because when you see the kris in person they are NOT pointed..........Dave.

4th February 2014, 07:22 AM	#13
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,252	I agree with Jose that the blade is clearly a late style - with the seperate gangya, I believe it's from the 1920-1930 period. Regards, Kai

4th February 2014, 08:07 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Dave, I also have to agree with Jose's evaluation on this. The blade just does not show the craftsmanship that one would expect on an older example. Another thing that seems off on this is that the medial ridge is almost completely straight where usually when these are present (on older blades) they follow the flow of the luks. This is just my opinion though and I could quite possibly be wrong. Best, Robert