Afghani Khyber swords : are there 2 varieties?

RobT · 6th November 2005, 12:04 AM

I think Rick hit the nail on the head with his tribal/regional observation. To go even further I propose that we should view the Khyber blade style as native to a much larger area than Afghanistan and that its very practical and beautiful shape has been variously hilted to suit the disparate tastes of a wide variety of ethnic groups. After all, do we really have any hard evidence the this blade style orignated in Afghanistan? Could it not have just as easily come from Iran, Pakastan or North India? In support of this contention, I point to Figiel (On Damascus Steel) pg 69 which shows a " 'T' shaped back edge" Khyber style blade from "Northwest India" or "Persia" with an Indo/Muslim "Deli Shahi type" hilt. In addition to this, I am posting pictures of two Khyber style blades with hilts that differ from those already shown in this thread. The larger of the two features a 29" (73.66cm) blade and a 5" (12.7cm) horn hilt whose one piece scales look like a cross between a peshkabz and choora hilt. The smaller blade is 26" (66.4cm) long and has a 6" (15.24cm) wooden hilt that looks like an enlarged kard hilt.
Sincerely,
RobT

Rick · 6th November 2005, 12:43 AM

Well , if we take Figiel at his word then all Khybers could come from Persia as I have yet to see one with a ricasso .

I think along with a possible tribal variation we should also take into account the creativity of the smith who made the individual piece ; artistic license if you will for the smaller variations in hilt style and bolster .

not2sharp · 9th November 2005, 08:44 AM

Here is a similar all steel sword, most likely from India.

n2s

Rick · 9th November 2005, 02:28 PM

From the picture I'm seeing no T shaped spine , and a false edge ?
Aside from the hilt it looks a bit like a Kirach blade .

There certainly is a confusing variety in the E.W.'s of India .

Should we start to classify Khyber/Salawar Yataghans by blade features ?

Oh yes , and just when I had stated that I'd never seen a Khyber with a ricasso someone comes up with one .

http://www.ashokaarts.com/edgedweapons/ew-46.html

Jens Nordlunde · 9th November 2005, 04:10 PM

Sorry for joining so late. I believe the two different types Ariel shows are due to tribal differences, like stated earlier.

Rick, I think N2s is playing tricks on us, showing only part of the sword. I think I see a false edge too, and do I also see a ricasso?

I too was surprised to see a Khyper knife with a ricasso, and I am with you about the ‘artistic license’, but I don’t buy RobT’s suggestion about expanding the area, where these knifes was used, widely.

Sometimes Afghanistan was a province of Persia, and sometimes of India – it was even at times regarded part of India – not a province.

6th November 2005, 12:04 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 478	Blade is Key? I think Rick hit the nail on the head with his tribal/regional observation. To go even further I propose that we should view the Khyber blade style as native to a much larger area than Afghanistan and that its very practical and beautiful shape has been variously hilted to suit the disparate tastes of a wide variety of ethnic groups. After all, do we really have any hard evidence the this blade style orignated in Afghanistan? Could it not have just as easily come from Iran, Pakastan or North India? In support of this contention, I point to Figiel (On Damascus Steel) pg 69 which shows a " 'T' shaped back edge" Khyber style blade from "Northwest India" or "Persia" with an Indo/Muslim "Deli Shahi type" hilt. In addition to this, I am posting pictures of two Khyber style blades with hilts that differ from those already shown in this thread. The larger of the two features a 29" (73.66cm) blade and a 5" (12.7cm) horn hilt whose one piece scales look like a cross between a peshkabz and choora hilt. The smaller blade is 26" (66.4cm) long and has a 6" (15.24cm) wooden hilt that looks like an enlarged kard hilt. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

6th November 2005, 12:43 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,288	Well , if we take Figiel at his word then all Khybers could come from Persia as I have yet to see one with a ricasso . I think along with a possible tribal variation we should also take into account the creativity of the smith who made the individual piece ; artistic license if you will for the smaller variations in hilt style and bolster .

9th November 2005, 08:44 AM	#3
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Here is a similar all steel sword, most likely from India. n2s

9th November 2005, 02:28 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,288	From the picture I'm seeing no T shaped spine , and a false edge ? Aside from the hilt it looks a bit like a Kirach blade . There certainly is a confusing variety in the E.W.'s of India . Should we start to classify Khyber/Salawar Yataghans by blade features ? Oh yes , and just when I had stated that I'd never seen a Khyber with a ricasso someone comes up with one . http://www.ashokaarts.com/edgedweapons/ew-46.html

9th November 2005, 04:10 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry for joining so late. I believe the two different types Ariel shows are due to tribal differences, like stated earlier. Rick, I think N2s is playing tricks on us, showing only part of the sword. I think I see a false edge too, and do I also see a ricasso? I too was surprised to see a Khyper knife with a ricasso, and I am with you about the ‘artistic license’, but I don’t buy RobT’s suggestion about expanding the area, where these knifes was used, widely. Sometimes Afghanistan was a province of Persia, and sometimes of India – it was even at times regarded part of India – not a province.