hilt for comment

[Ganja Iras]

Dear folks ,

Here i presenting my balinesse hilt ,prabu (the king ) .
made of moos deer horn with silver selut ; gold plated
any comments are welcome
Thanks for watching

Ganja iras

[jwkiernan]

Very nice...great detail! Congrats!

All my best,

John

[Ganja Iras]

Originally Posted by jwkiernan

Very nice...great detail! Congrats!

All my best,

John

Hi jhon ,
Thank you very much for your appreciation.
just try to share some pics of my little collection.
the hilt is new made ,and it was made by balinesse carver in tampak siring.
angkop / selud made in lombok silver smith.
Thanks for watching.

Ganja iras

[Ganja Iras]

i also want to share this .
made of whale tooth in ganesha motif.
Silver selud with gems
Thank you

[David]

Well honestly i don't like the first one very much. Perhaps it's the material as i have never liked the look of all the moose antler hilts that are coming out of this area of late. I actually prefer the look of deer antler. The staining of this hilt also has a forced aging look about it.
The carving on the ganesha is much nicer. Are you sure this is whale "ivory"? Is new whale ivory even legal in that area? It certainly would have trouble passing customs abroad.

[Ganja Iras]

Hi David ,
Thank you for your opinion .
well i am very sure about the material is whale ivory.
my friends from flores ( east nusa tenggara ) gave me some whale tooths last year.
in his place ,there is a yearly traditional ceremony ( whale hunting ) ,but unfortunately i can't give you more info about it ,sorry for that.
here i include some pic's of the material.
thank you ,

Ganja iras

[David]

Yep, that looks like sperm whale teeth to me.
No need to tell us any more about the traditional whale hunting in Flores. There is plenty of info about this on the web and the hunt has become something of a tourist attraction with week long tours scheduled around it so you will find a lot of hits on a google search for this.
Of course most of the world has a moratorium on the hunting of sperm whales and they are on the endangered spices list here in the USA. Sale of this material collected after CITES (1973) is considered illegal in most parts of the world AFAIK. While it is obviously a better looking material for working into hilts than moose antler i would image that there are great difficulties and dangers in selling these hilts to an international market.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Well honestly i don't like the first one very much. Perhaps it's the material as i have never liked the look of all the moose antler hilts that are coming out of this area of late. I actually prefer the look of deer antler. The staining of this hilt also has a forced aging look about it.
The carving on the ganesha is much nicer. Are you sure this is whale "ivory"? Is new whale ivory even legal in that area? It certainly would have trouble passing customs abroad.

I also don't like too much the prabu hilt especially because the head is disproportionate (too big) to the body. The colour of the nice Ganesha hilt looks very white and uniform for spermwhale ivory but it may be because it is new.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I also don't like too much the prabu hilt especially because the head is disproportionate (too big) to the body.

I think that disproportion was also a big part of what turned me off to this hilt.

[Battara]

I too was not turned on by the color nor the massive head of the first one. However the Ganesha is nice.

Also I thought sperm tooth was very white would therefore create a whitening effect. Not seen much sperm whale tooth with patina.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

Not seen much sperm whale tooth with patina.

Have you looked at much old scrimshaw José? Plenty of patina on those puppies.

[Marcokeris]

By the pic the white hilt seems made by moose horn

[Jean]

AFAIK the inner core of sperm whale tooth (made from dentin) has a yellowish colour and shows concentric rings but of course this may vary from one specimen to another and depending on the age of the piece.
The 2 attached Bugis hilts from Sulawesi are made from sperm whale ivory I think (other opinions are welcome) and they show a deep yellow patination.
Regards
PS: See the yellow core of the largest (broken) tooth shown by Ganja Iras

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I have quite a few whale's tooth carvings, a couple are scrimshaws, the others are ornaments, and that is apart from hilts, I also have a number of whale's teeth.

I've just gone and had a look at a few of these. I think it would be true to say that the core of the tooth patinates to a dark yellow, but in a freshly carved tooth without patination this is not the case. Close examination of a freshly carved tooth --- one that has been carved during , say, the last ten years --- does reveal a very, very slight tint of yellow, but not the deep yellow that can be seen in an old carving or an old tooth. You can see this quite clearly in the tips of the group of uncarved teeth above:- the tip, where the core shows through is a deep yellow, the outside of the tooth is whitish --- or as you say, the core of the broken large tooth.

Many years ago I bought a lot of whales teeth that had been recovered from the sea bed in Western Australia. In the time when whaling was acknowledged as a legitimate activity, a whaling station in the area had dumped its rubbish into the sea at this spot. In the 1960's or 1970's, I forget which, divers recovered these teeth and at that time there were a lot of them for sale in Australia. I've been getting them carved and scrimshawed ever since. I also used a few for knife handles when I was involved in custom making.

[Jean]

Thank you Alan and then the new Ganesha hilt from Ganja Iras could be made from a recently collected sperm whale tooth and will patinate with time.
For our reference would you identify my 2 Buginese hilts (which are about 100 years old I think) as made from sperm whale tooth or not, or which other alternative?
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I'm not as clever as a lot of people seem to be when it comes to identifying materials on the basis of a picture on my monitor.

I need to have the item in my hand, and more often than not, a 3X loupe screwed into my eye.

I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to have a punt of what your hilts may or may not be. Even with an item in my hand, on a couple of occasions I have very nearly purchase synthetic material as ivory, only my extreme caution and examination under magnification in good sunlight saved me. Name material from a screen pic? No thanks. Sorry.

[Ganja Iras]

This is my ganesha hilt ,made of ivory.
Carved in lombok
T.Q

Ganja iras

[David]

Ganja Iras' 3 images of his ganesha hilt point to one of the many problems involved with making identifications from photos on the internet. These are shot either under two different light sources with the same camera white balance (most probable) or under the same light source with two different white balances. Either way it becomes impossible to tell which of these images portrays the correct color of the material. Most likely neither are exactly correct. Since how ivory patinas can sometimes be a clue as to the type of material used you can see how difficult that might be to determine accurately through photos and how easily colors can be manipulated.

[Battara]

After seeing some of these, I see you point David. No, not seen very many patinated sperm whale tooth examples.

[Ganja Iras]

Hi guys ,
if we talk about patinated on a hilt ,of course we'll see and find it on an old one.
i hope this post will make a little satisfaction for your eyes.
an old JAWA DEMAM ,with knitted silver and penokok.
thanks again .
Ganja iras