18th Century Machete ?

[CutlassCollector]

Further to Norman's reply. This is a page from Schnitzler & Kirschbaum's catalogue of c.1850 which I copy from Boarders Away.

Note the 1700's style cutlass at the top and the 1804 pattern underneath it - makes you wonder, when we have reproductions themselves over 150 years old - also the use of cabalistic symbols on many blades.
Solingen cutlers had no qualms about including these ancient markings or the GR symbol to indicate a quality blade to the export market. I'm not sure what the numbers signify - possibly model numbers - although there are two marked 25 which are significantly different.

Regards, CC.

[thinreadline]

Yes that's extremely interesting , and does appear to solve the case convincingly. Much appreciated .

[CutlassCollector]

I did wonder if the 24 indicated a 24 inch blade as the two 25's appear about an inch longer. Did your 65cm refer to the total length or only the blade?
A long shot, I know, but it seems worth the trouble to ask if your blade is 22 inches.
CC

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by CutlassCollector

I did wonder if the 24 indicated a 24 inch blade as the two 25's appear about an inch longer. Did your 65cm refer to the total length or only the blade?
A long shot, I know, but it seems worth the trouble to ask if your blade is 22 inches.
CC

No that's a good hunch , however measuring it across the curve ( ie in a straight line ) it is 20.5 inches. Pity !

[M ELEY]

I had forgotten about Kirshbaum's swords and their spurious 'GR' markings! Yes, it would seem that the mystery is solved. Throughout the 19th century, Germany (or the Hapsburg Republic, pre-Germany) was importing swords to the Spanish colonies. I used to own a Span late-18th c. broadsword with a finely marked German blade. The makers of that piece, whom I had researched, had stationed themselves in Columbia and were active merchants to the colonies. Likewise, in my collection I have a German-made 'private purchase' cutlass, pipe-back broad unstopped fuller like yours, with 'VR' marking. It wasn't govm't issue, but it very well might have served on an English ship.

[CutlassCollector]

That's interesting as although manufacturers were using GR marks illegally in mid-century I was assuming that they were less likely to risk sanctions if they refrained from using the marks of the current monarch.
Mark, are you thinking that your blade was spuriously marked or was initially purchased and issued by the Brit government?

Quote:
No that's a good hunch , however measuring it across the curve ( ie in a straight line ) it is 20.5 inches. Pity !

Oh and thanks Thinreadline for checking the length - it was just a thought, 20 inches makes more sense for a machete anyway!

CC

[M ELEY]

Hello CC,
Sorry for the delay, as I was away. The whole controversy of markings is enough to write a book on, as Gilkerson himself admits. In the case of my cutlass with VR markings, I'm just not confident enough to be sure. The style of cutlass is early 19th, but it bears the very faint marking indicating British private purchase. There aren't enough visible details with the rubbed stamp to make it clear, I'm afraid. I say that this piece was at least in part German-made because another just like it is pictured in Norm Flayderman's 'American Swords', ex. 95a. The ribbed iron cast grip and hilt components are listed as being German-made, but considering the fact that Germany was making MOST of the swords for Britain and America at the time, its still not clear if it were used by Brit merchants/privateers or simply marked as such for 'quality' purposes and sold abroad.

As far as the 'GR' markings go, we could also have a lengthy conversation about both spurious markings and real markings for private purchase pieces. For instance, I have a m1803 Brit cutlass with block-letter sans serif GR under crown. As most examples had a scripted fancy GR, one might immediately assume mine is a Schnitzler example. Upon closer examination, however, the markings on mine are different. The German example's GR are uniform and the crown is slightly leaning backwards, to expose the open rim of the interior. Likewise, a small cross can be seen. The mark on mine has the G with the R slightly lower. I call this a falling 'R' and it is the same mark as seen on the m1814 Brit cutlass in Gilkerson's book. The crown on mine is different than the Schnitzler, with no open rim, tipped forwards and lacking the small cross. Even the 'lobes' of the crown are different. The mark on mine, letters and crown alike, match the m1814, leading me to believe that later examples of the m1803, being made by multiple makers as noted, would have included block letter GR markings absolutely contemporary with the sword. Of course, block letter GR's are seen on other swords of the period, particularly cutlass made by Wooley.

Not to detract from this thread, I still am not sure if these machetes were produced in England during the reign of either of the two George's or whether they were made in Solingen and thus marked to show quality.
I am unaware of any machete being issued to Brit soldiers at the time. However, considering the sheer number of colonies they were occupying at the time, it stands within reason that they might have been purchased for over-seas troops, perhaps in the jungles of India or in Africa?