What kind of sword is this???

pbleed · 5th March 2013, 03:26 AM

Very interesting. It certainly could be a "one off", but I agree with Trench that it has a Spanish colonial look. I'd like close ups of the scabbard fittings.
Peter

VVV · 5th March 2013, 06:24 PM

Peter,

Here are the close ups.

Michael

Robert · 5th March 2013, 07:10 PM

Hello, I have been waiting to see how this thread progressed in hopes of learning the heritage of this great sword and decided I might as well add my two cents worth of ideas about this into the mix. The general shape to me looks very similar to that of a gladius and the star symbol could be a Stella Maris or star of the sea. That being said for some reason this sword (to me anyway) has a very French look to it, perhaps a French presentation sword of some kind. Not much help I'm afraid but something to think about.

Best,
Robert

carlos · 5th March 2013, 07:55 PM

The sword remember me one sword from the french ecole de mars.
Best regards
Carlos

Rick · 6th March 2013, 12:00 AM

If I could see the engraving down the blade better, I might suggest Dutch East Indies, a la Tjikeroeh .

M ELEY · 6th March 2013, 02:14 AM

Hmmm...One off is definitely right, but a very well made sword. I also saw the general pattern of the French Gladius, as Robert mentioned. Likewise, Carlos brings up a good point with the de mars patterns. The star and general shape of the sword, including the horn grip, reminded me of some of the Chinese jian patterns circa Boxer period. The workmanship is top-notch. The fittings appear to be pewter? And the design by which they are cut reminds one of some of the Chinese patterns I've seen. A wood scabbard is very atypical of French patterns. I've never seen a Spanish colonial piece in this shape, although the materials are right. The floral decor does resemble some of the Span types, but not unheard of on Chinese pieces as well. My vote, for what its worth, is Chinese in imitation of Euro types from the same period (c. 1850's)

Jim McDougall · 6th March 2013, 03:11 AM

Truly an anamoly, and I am inclined to go along with the Spanish colonial gestalt, with indicators to the Philippines. I feel that the initials and the pentagram are likely to one of the Insurrecto groups, and as noted the floral geometric pattern resemble Spanish style. It almost seems like I have seen someting similar at some point with this kind of star symbol with Filipino association but cannot locate in notes.
The resemblances to the French Ecole de Mars noted are reasonable in that there is a degree of neoclassic styling in similar sense, as mentioned with the gladius comparison. This symmetrical center point broadsword blade and the heavy block forte recall French and American patterns of infantry swords from Napoleonic into the US Civil War (the Ames M1833), with these patterned after the Roman gladius.

Im sure those out there specializing in Filipino weapons might help us out in determining if the inscribed star and initials might be from there.

5th March 2013, 06:24 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Peter, Here are the close ups. Michael Attached Images

5th March 2013, 03:26 AM	#1
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Very interesting. It certainly could be a "one off", but I agree with Trench that it has a Spanish colonial look. I'd like close ups of the scabbard fittings. Peter

5th March 2013, 07:10 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello, I have been waiting to see how this thread progressed in hopes of learning the heritage of this great sword and decided I might as well add my two cents worth of ideas about this into the mix. The general shape to me looks very similar to that of a gladius and the star symbol could be a Stella Maris or star of the sea. That being said for some reason this sword (to me anyway) has a very French look to it, perhaps a French presentation sword of some kind. Not much help I'm afraid but something to think about. Best, Robert

5th March 2013, 07:55 PM	#4
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	The sword remember me one sword from the french ecole de mars. Best regards Carlos

6th March 2013, 12:00 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	If I could see the engraving down the blade better, I might suggest Dutch East Indies, a la Tjikeroeh .

6th March 2013, 02:14 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,087	Hmmm...One off is definitely right, but a very well made sword. I also saw the general pattern of the French Gladius, as Robert mentioned. Likewise, Carlos brings up a good point with the de mars patterns. The star and general shape of the sword, including the horn grip, reminded me of some of the Chinese jian patterns circa Boxer period. The workmanship is top-notch. The fittings appear to be pewter? And the design by which they are cut reminds one of some of the Chinese patterns I've seen. A wood scabbard is very atypical of French patterns. I've never seen a Spanish colonial piece in this shape, although the materials are right. The floral decor does resemble some of the Span types, but not unheard of on Chinese pieces as well. My vote, for what its worth, is Chinese in imitation of Euro types from the same period (c. 1850's)

6th March 2013, 03:11 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Truly an anamoly, and I am inclined to go along with the Spanish colonial gestalt, with indicators to the Philippines. I feel that the initials and the pentagram are likely to one of the Insurrecto groups, and as noted the floral geometric pattern resemble Spanish style. It almost seems like I have seen someting similar at some point with this kind of star symbol with Filipino association but cannot locate in notes. The resemblances to the French Ecole de Mars noted are reasonable in that there is a degree of neoclassic styling in similar sense, as mentioned with the gladius comparison. This symmetrical center point broadsword blade and the heavy block forte recall French and American patterns of infantry swords from Napoleonic into the US Civil War (the Ames M1833), with these patterned after the Roman gladius. Im sure those out there specializing in Filipino weapons might help us out in determining if the inscribed star and initials might be from there.