The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Dear Ibrahiim,

The image you have presented lacks the traditional quillons of the earlier sword types and the length and width of the sword pictured is in line with the type you claim are only dance swords.

With respect, I suggest, based on the image you have shown above and the larger detail I have presented below, that Khalid bin Barghash's sword is a long handled fighting sword of the later type you refer to as dance swords.

Regards

Gavin

Salaams ~ Please look again at the sketch.. It shows a straight Old Omani Battle Sword with obvious turned down quillons. Dancing swords (straight Sayf) and Kattara (Curved) longhilts didn't have quillons.

Note that I show this sketch to illustrate how late the weapon was being worn..thus in a way it was the caretaker fighting sword all the way through the Gunpowder revolution.

It would perhaps be of some benefit if you re-read the massive detail contained in the library at Kattara for comments which acts as the anchor and main source to this thread. I think that will put us on the same page.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Good people, you'll have to circle the quillons because all I see is a oval disc behind the hilt....

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Good people, you'll have to circle the quillons because all I see is a oval disc behind the hilt....

Gavin

Salaams ~Kindly look at post# 12 and compare.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams ~Kindly look at post# 12 and compare.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim, the sword in #12 is not the sword in the drawing....there are no visible quillons in the drawing, do look closer.

Regards

Gavin

[Richard G]

I think I can see the quillons
Regards
Richard

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I think I can see the quillons
Regards
Richard

Thank you or higlighting this Richard.

I can see a very straight handle leading in to a Quillon block that sits atop the scabbard and being the same width as the sabbard throat, a lot like the Yemen types discussed, but to my eye, the white disc does not appear to be of the same form as the quillon block and quillons of these old swords. From what has been published in these pages, if it was called a Yemen example of the type I would somewhat agree more.

I can see to the left side something that could be considered a quillon end, but looking at left side versus the right side, the left side is higher...run a straight line squarely up from the horizontal line of the scabbard throat.

Also note that the white oval marked as the quillon block and quillons is oval in its entire form. These older swords, whilst having a slight curve to this area do not adopt an oval form as this white oval does, but ends in vertical quillons and lobed ends...the white disc does not clearly show this old form to my eye.

Even with your point being taken, I do not think this image, that can draw several visual appreciations, can be considered conclusive that it is the pure "Oman" type of the older sword. The blade's narrow width and long length is also somewhat of a rarer sword when comparing to the "type". If it is "old world", the quillon block shape would surely be considered unique and more in line with those that has been classified as "Yemeni", perhaps the Yemen attribution of these other swords discussed needs to be explored further for intermarriage.



PS, I must be a Sultan too, I don't dance and love waiving swords around.

[Gavin Nugent]

I missed the Royal hilted sword above and agree it could be of this type as it has the curves and size of the quillon block the others don't have along wth the more pronounced grip running in to it....which leads me to ask, what type of blades does this sword have as I doubt it is a "battle sword" of the true old type

Gavin

[Iain]

I think I can see it - perhaps this enlarged, sharpened and labelled image will help - obviously not the pinnacle of graphic design...

It's very hard to tell on an image of this resolution.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Thank you or higlighting this Richard.

I can see a very straight handle leading in to a Quillon block that sits atop the scabbard and being the same width as the sabbard throat, a lot like the Yemen types discussed, but to my eye, the white disc does not appear to be of the same form as the quillon block and quillons of these old swords. From what has been published in these pages, if it was called a Yemen example of the type I would somewhat agree more.

I can see to the left side something that could be considered a quillon end, but looking at left side versus the right side, the left side is higher...run a straight line squarely up from the horizontal line of the scabbard throat.

Also note that the white oval marked as the quillon block and quillons is oval in its entire form. These older swords, whilst having a slight curve to this area do not adopt an oval form as this white oval does, but ends in vertical quillons and lobed ends...the white disc does not clearly show this old form to my eye.

Even with your point being taken, I do not think this image, that can draw several visual appreciations, can be considered conclusive that it is the pure "Oman" type of the older sword. The blade's narrow width and long length is also somewhat of a rarer sword when comparing to the "type". If it is "old world", the quillon block shape would surely be considered unique and more in line with those that has been classified as "Yemeni", perhaps the Yemen attribution of these other swords discussed needs to be explored further for intermarriage.



PS, I must be a Sultan too, I don't dance and love waiving swords around.

Salaams ~ The attribution of the Yemeni swords by which I assume you mean the ones perhaps related to the Military museum exhibits is being fully aired on its own thread.

The anchor thread with a full and complete detail of the Abbassiid Omani Sword technology shift which spawned the Omani Battle Sword is at ''Kattara for comments" and ideal now as a background forum library reference. The Omani Sayf or Dancing Sword has its own thread as does the Omani Kattara because they are all completely different blades and separate entities. The linkage between the Sayf and Kattara is in the long hilt form which may or may not be related to the Yemeni longhilt. (personally however, I think they are related) Separating the different swords allows each to be examined much more carefully so we can all wave them about whilst jumping up and down instead of pulling our hair out trying to fathom which is which.

Essentially there are 4 Omani Swords;

1.The Omani Battle Sword.
2.The Straight Sayf Dancing Sword.
3.The Curved Kattara.
4.The Omani Shamshiir (not yet launched as a thread).

I am delighted that you can see the quillons on the sketch of Sultan Bargashs Omani Battle Sword.

I will be delighted to convince you about the dancing sword in due course ... and on the other thread ya of course. The background detail is also contained in Kattara for comments and I am extracting details all the time from there.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Ibrahiim, the sword in #12 is not the sword in the drawing....there are no visible quillons in the drawing, do look closer.

Regards

Gavin

Salaams. Did I say it was the same sword? I think not. Use any example of any Omani Battle Sword on thread and compare.

The sword in the sketch is with turned down quillons in the exact style of The Omani Battle Sword . Further if you consider the tubular (and usually octagonal tubular shape of the hilt) it additionally identifies this as such.

Moreover, Dancing swords, The Straight Omani Sayf, have flattened conical hilts broadening toward the frontal cuff and no crossguard or quillons as such.

Also reverse engineering this individual regarding his weapons~ he would be very unlikely to wear a dancing sword since it would be he (as Royalty) that the large congregation of march past contingent actually salute ...by waving and buzzing their dancing swords in the air as part of the tradition. Sultans don't dance ...

He on the other hand would be wearing a different sword. This one would be ideal as it likely had ... like the hilt of the Khanjar he is seen with in the same sketch... a Royal hilt Iconized and designed by one of the wives(Sheherezad) of the previous Sultan. As was his Royal turban.


The outline by Richard G further puts the point.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.