Official Announcement

[Antonio Cejunior]

Hi everyone,



I would wish to share with you all this Official Announcement hoping it is not too off topic.

It is a world first.
Very best to everyone
Antonio

[Mark]

Very exciting, Antonio! I would say that these are modern-day ethnographic weapons, so it is even on-topic.

In this case, the weapon is more of an artistic expression of contemporary culture, a re-interpretation and/or synthesis of traditional forms. I have found very interesting the recent resurgance in interest in edged weapons, not just in terms of collecting antique pieces, but an actual interest in have a "new"sword, of custom made as in the "old days." Though not used in warfare, of course, I see these modern swords as having the same role as status symbols, and expressions of the owner's personality, as they did in times past. An intriguing phenomenon.

[Antonio Cejunior]

Thanks very much Mark!

Indeed in the Future it will be seen as you say. Ethnographic weapons of the Global Village, where smiths interpret the edged weapon as a cross culture piece. In fact I have prepared this text in three languages to be placed in a large panel at the entrance of the exhibition:

MASTERS OF FIRE - ART AND CHANGE
Only those who work with fire and steel can perceive the moment when the red hot Yang iron meets the cool Yin water and hears the cries of the metal being transmuted from iron into steel, in a most significant marriage of the opposites that for long have been formulated by Daoism.
In a moment when deep changes in concepts go across the world we live in, when technologies provide instant communication, information and globalization, cultural hybridation accelerates and concepts once thought to be unchangeable - such as the definition of art – begin once more their process of mutation, for the history of the world is but the history of evolution.
Once art was considered an unchangeable concept of nationalistic nature, categorized as superior or inferior, depending on its origin being of intellectual or popular nature, immutable and authoritative. The art object was defined only as something without any other purpose than be art itself.
Yet, what today is considered art was not so when it was originally produced.

Therefore let us remind ourselves from this episode of Confucius, pertaining to Li (Ritual): When the Master was in the Grand Temple he asked questions about everything he saw. Someone then said: “Who says this son of a villager understands Ritual?”.
The Master replied: “Questioning is itself Ritual”.
In times when concepts require a new formulation, one of the possible answers is to look for the roots of Ancient Knowledge. The Earth’s core, its very soul, is molten iron that ensures gravity and the magnetic field that protects the Earth’s surface, Yang and Yin once more.
One of the most powerful icons that have presided over mankind, the sword, a product of ancient technology so very often overlooked has now, when its use is obsolete, acquired the right to enter the ranks of art objects especially when its artistic purpose is absolutely evident.
For the same reason that present day installations root their origins in ancient manifestations of mankind such as dolmens, totemic sculptures and other forms of territorial or sacred demarcation of lands and territories, the sword emerges today from the mist of Myths connected with power, heavenly choice, justice, honour or courage as pure art on its own right.
In times of change, seek the roots: “Questioning is itself Ritual".

[wilked aka Khun Deng]

Antonio - WELL SAID! I think you've definately captured the feelings of many of us in your words. Not only are weapons an art but also a look into our past and how we developed into what we are today. Again well said.

If I may, I would like to pass on Lung Som's and Serge's compliments - your picture is now displayed in their show room. What a change has taken place there. Sege has organized Lung Som and refocused him on traditional arts, I know you had misgivings about his website not focusing on swords, well it must have done some good as he is collecting all the books he can on traditional Thai sword-making and is trying to steer Lung Som away from tourist stuff and showing him there is a market for mastercarftman produced blades. Serge has been invaluable in helping me attain the quality of dress on the handle and scabbard to match the wonderful blade that Lung Som produced seeking out the best from all over Thailand. I owe him a debt of gratitude. They both send their Warmest regards.

Dan

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by wilked aka Khun Deng

Antonio - WELL SAID! I think you've definately captured the feelings of many of us in your words. Not only are weapons an art but also a look into our past and how we developed into what we are today. Again well said.

If I may, I would like to pass on Lung Som's and Serge's compliments - your picture is now displayed in their show room. What a change has taken place there. Sege has organized Lung Som and refocused him on traditional arts, I know you had misgivings about his website not focusing on swords, well it must have done some good as he is collecting all the books he can on traditional Thai sword-making and is trying to steer Lung Som away from tourist stuff and showing him there is a market for mastercarftman produced blades. Serge has been invaluable in helping me attain the quality of dress on the handle and scabbard to match the wonderful blade that Lung Som produced seeking out the best from all over Thailand. I owe him a debt of gratitude. They both send their Warmest regards.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Just got back from a week long field trip a couple of hours ago.
Your words are most kind. To make the sword be acknowledged as art it is also imperative that the fight is brought into the academic art as in which way can a sword be considered art.
I intend to make a two hour long presentation on this issue in an attempt to bridge it between sword lovers and art academics. This will take place on the 15th of October at the Museum Auditorium.

It is most kind of Lung Som and Serge. I lost Serge's address and website.
Do keep me posted please either here or by email.

It is good if Lung Som concentrates in the traditional crafts.
BTW, have you received your swords? Would love to see them.

Regards,

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Antonio, you are right swords are works of art. I wish you good luck in your fight, a fight it will be. To bridge that gap between the decorative arts, art, and ART for the academic will mean a war of many fronts which I hate to say you are destined to loose

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Hello Antonio, you are right swords are works of art. I wish you good luck in your fight, a fight it will be. To bridge that gap between the decorative arts, art, and ART for the academic will mean a war of many fronts which I hate to say you are destined to loose

Hi Tim,

I thank you for your kind words. There's a saying in Portuguese:
a razão, mesmo vencida, não deixa de ser razão.
Reason (in the sense of that is correct), even defeated, does not change its nature.

It is not about swords only, but about the entire concept of prejudice.
Best regards and thanks

[Jim McDougall]

I agree wholeheartedly with what has been said about the corelation between edged weapons and art, which is key to the study of ethnographic edged weapons.
It has been noted that,
"...rather than being mere accessories, weapons are in fact themselves artistic creations that reflect larger stylistic tendancies of a period".
- "Harnischstudien" (Studies in Armour), in "Jahrbuch des Kunsthistorichen Museums in Wien", B.Thomas & O. Gamber

I think that one of the best studies I have seen that reflects such importance in the study of ethnographic edged weapons is Robert Elgood's new book "Hindu Arms and Ritual" . This book describes religious symbolism and metaphor imbued in these weapons which often parallel similar artistic motifs seen in other aspects of the material culture of India. While this reference offers at last a perspective on this view focusing on the weapons, too often other studies in art and material culture chose to ignore or only give cursory attention to weapons and focus on other avenues.

I think that the beautiful weapons that have been brought to our attention by Antonio represent excellent examples of traditions, themes and heritage from various cultures that have been wonderfully incorporated into such works of art. In this sense they are very much the same as the antique weapons they often represent, which were in so many cases made as presentation or ceremonial pieces for dignitaries or influential figures.

Thank you again Antonio for your elegant postings!

Very best regards,
Jim

[Antonio Cejunior]

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your kind words.
I think that the main issue here resides in what I would call contemporary swords as opposed to historical swords.
Allow me to explain better: In order to achieve a recognition of swords (let us start with contemporary since ancient swords have the excuse to be historical) as art objects and have them recognized by the highly elitist museological group who in no way will easily accept swords as equal art objects as a painting or a sculpture, it is also important to analyze some interesting cultural appropriation phenomena. An immediate example that comes to mind is a non-Japanese smith making a japanese style sword (cannot be called a nihon-tô). The question is: what are the forces that bring an (say) American bladesmith to make a Japanese style sword? In other words, how would you view a Chinese artist producing Pop Art, which is culturally allien to him?
The question and the discussion transcends the mere issue of swords to be focused in my opinion in the need for contemporary bladesmiths to stop their forges for a while and think about why are they embracing something that is alien to their own culture while they reject the bowie or the saber (as examples). In fact I've seen people define themselves as artists without ever having enquired about the significance of art, or even on the ancient definition of techne.
Many smiths are not artistically educated -- yes I believe one should seek a broader perspective -- in order to evolve from a shape into others.
What I am witnessing is that the so called art world is slowly opening its doors to many other forms or art.
Our friend Mark Bowditch pointed out to me the Guggenheim Exhibition on The Art of the Motorcycle which comes into the continuity of Pop Art way of viewing things, so some barriers of prejudice are falling.
I try to be equidistand and I believe that contemporary smiths should demand more of themselves in order to (in their turn) meet the conservative art circle. For that we all have to let down our prejudices and possibly evolve into a large and serious debate on art.
I see present day installations


as nothing more than the repossession of very ancient manifestations of the concept of space, the relationship between the void and the occupied space, a definition of an area that provokes with the same space definition of what once was sacred space



So if we agree that art is -- apart from being a human fabrication that too often did not had the intention of being art but had a different function -- then maybe we can talk in equal terms.
But so long as we stand partial to one side, it will never be an agreement.

I speak of contemporary smiths because this is the most challenging issue.
Ethnographic weapons have less issues in their acceptance as art objects in these times of change where a video can be home edited and presented as a provocation or as a piece of "digital video art".

Main condition for this all to happen is that everyone is willing to let go of their own naturally build preconceptions or prejudices.

As in the installations case, the demarcation of space is even performed in other ways by animals (territorial demarcation).

Whether a space is provocatory or sacred, it is the demarcation for a purpose that pre-defines its intention.
One of my reasons for designing swords is to slowly break this barrier of shape and what is politically-technically correct. However I had to go by the pace of the smiths, though some interesting results were achieved.





Pardon my rant, but I felt this wonderful forum is the most mature one that I know of.

And as you know, Trafalgar was won because Nelson did not follow the traditional pattern of battle. He found a niche in the concept of sea warfare.


Very best regards

[Tim Simmons]

Very well said Antonio, I to feel that much of what I have seen of today's swords are although made with the best intentions often rather reproduction like or so macho they almost look like fantasy pieces, is the latter, a case of smiths trying to run before they can walk? The contemporary sword may be accepted as a work of art but will always be viewed as something from the decorative arts, precious and related to jewellery and other owned objects of status. They are after-all decorated tools from a craft origin . One could have a gold and jewel encrusted mobile phone and it would mark your public status but would never work as public art as an installation does. Good luck, Tim

[Jim McDougall]

Antonio, I think that is an extremely well stated assessment of the dynamics of art in application, beautifully explained !! I see what you mean entirely
Thank you !!
Very best regards,
Jim

[Antonio Cejunior]

Dear Tim and Jim,

Thank you for your kind words.
Indeed the monetary value of an object, as a cell phone in gold, does not make it an art object.
But I would settle, as a first step, to see swords as decorative art.
I guess that prejudice don't allow most people to view swords at the same level as painting. I do understand it for it is extremmely hard for someone to get rid of everything which he was raised with. That is the power of culture as we understand it.
Tim, most kind of you. But while I understand "fantasy" pieces as swords from movies (I just can't imagine how vulnerable people are to what is sold to them) I believe the term I am focusing in should be contemporary swords as opposed to modern which is a period, as you know, referring to the Modernist movement.
I'll be holding a conference on the 15th. about Fire and Steel.
In fact, if we do not zoom out, we will never be able to show people how everything is connected.
I'll surely need some luck

Thank you both, gentlemen.

BTW, the catalog is available for order here

Very best

[Rick]

Hi Antonio ,
I think it is a tough row to hoe trying to get modern culture to accept swords as works of art without somehow gelding them (if even possible) of their real purpose in the doing .

Swords were meant to spill other mens' blood pure and simple ; they are an elemental tool used to impose one man's will upon another and in today's PC world this is a very high hurdle to overcome .

I believe the visceral reaction of most of today's 'modern' peoples (non sword aficionados) to art swords will be of a blood letting device ; albeit a very pretty one , and regardles of how new , still viewed as anachronistic , an object for achieving human destruction which is used in a very intimate way .

I guess that I come to this conclusion from interaction with my friends and acquaintances ; when they see my kerisses and krisses yes , they can appreciate the work and artistry but they are still creeped out by their intended function , not to mention the bloody history of some of them .

You face a challenge that is for sure ; for that matter we all face the challenge of being able to continue to possess these marvelous objects in the gathering storm of government sponsored weapons restrictions all over the world .

[Antonio Cejunior]

Hi Rick,

I agree. It is a tool of destruction. But so can a bronze ashtray be.
In other words, it is the change of mind frame that it is the challenge.
While in present day there are more terrible weapons such as a speeding car, it is not regarded as a suicidal or killer tool.

Anyway, let's hope it is a seed.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

Hi Rick,

I agree. It is a tool of destruction. But so can a bronze ashtray be.
In other words, it is the change of mind frame that it is the challenge.
While in present day there are more terrible weapons such as a speeding car, it is not regarded as a suicidal or killer tool.

Anyway, let's hope it is a seed.

You are correct Antonio but as Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar ."

I share your hope .

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by Rick

You are correct Antonio but as Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar ."

I share your hope .

Very right Rick,

However, if people start to link things, they should be able to understand things.



The head dress of this Amazonian Indian chief replicates the sun and the halo in as much as the halo in Russian icons and Christian iconography crowns the head.



This leads to the head and the crown. In other words, semiotics can help a lot, apart from Freud's cigar

But it seems that it will be a while before people will see the sword also as a phallic symbol, a symbol of power and so forth.

Well, anyway, it's off to work.
Very best

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rick

I believe the visceral reaction of most of today's 'modern' peoples (non sword aficionados) to art swords will be of a blood letting device ; albeit a very pretty one , and regardles of how new , still viewed as anachronistic , an object for achieving human destruction which is used in a very intimate way .

You have put your finger on a central point, Rick. Most of use collect swords in large part for their aesthetic and historic value, and not for their quality weapons (at least I do). In viewing the sword as art (or any other weapon -- firearms are in the same situation I would say), this becomes part of the meaning, the tension, in the piece as a work of art. It is rather like some of the performance art of today, meant to shock you into seeing the world in a different light. On the one hand you see the beauty of the sword, on the other, their lethality. It forces you either to accept the duality of such things, or to see the lack of duality, if you will, between such extremes as art (life) and violence (death). Perhaps it is the yin-yang, perhaps it really is just one grey circle?

[Antonio Cejunior]

Interesting Mark,

In fact art as defined in a most traditional way, has always had a function, although many try to deny it. But if we talk about bhuddist art, religious art in general, it serves a purpose.

When it comes to provocation, the idea is meant to bring some food for thought. Let's talk about something also lethal:
The ketchup or mayonnese and the hamburger depicted in Pop Art. It was shocking at the time.

Yet it might have brought some thoughts on uniformization and industrialization of societies... which in some way is a political analysis.

But art has always had a political connection as well, either politically correct or ... incorrect

It is unbelievable that some people insist that art has no other purpose than be art... what is that???

[Tim Simmons]

One could argue that as we no longer, as a whole carry knives and swords for everyday use and yet there is still a desire to make and own them, renders them as art objects. However they would still belong to the realm of decorative arts much in the same way a small bronze sculpture or silver candle stick in a museum or a palace would be, no matter how beautifully designed and finished. I to prefer the art of, rather than the craftsmanship, but there is another barrier, I think some craft is art even though unlike ART more than one is made. I forgot to mention that I am talking about contemporary work. Tim

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

One could argue that as we no longer, as a whole carry knives and swords for everyday use and yet there is still a desire to make and own them, renders them as art objects. However they would still belong to the realm of decorative arts much in the same way a small bronze sculpture or silver candle stick in a museum or a palace would be, no matter how beautifully designed and finished. I to prefer the art of, rather than the craftsmanship, but there is another barrier, I think some craft is art even though unlike ART more than one is made. I forgot to mention that I am talking about contemporary work. Tim

Here's my take on it Tim , all art is decorative . Whether you hang a painting on a wall or carry a $5,000.00 gem encrusted damascus folder .

I personally have trouble seperating art from craft . I have a contemporary Windsor Bow Back chair at home that was made entirely by hand without the use of power tools ; the lines and construction are flawless . I consider it functional art .

Was Stradivarius a craftsman or an artist ? I maintain that he was an artist .

I have a friend who is a Luthier himself ; he brought a newly made violin to show me ; he played it and tears welled up in my eyes upon hearing its beautiful voice . The man is a craftsman yes , but he is also an artist .

Now in my opinion swords are visceral things ; some beautifully crafted and works of art in themselves and worthy of being on display as functional pieces of art . In the end though the sword is made for one thing , violence ; regarding Antonio's reference to an ashtray being able to kill someone , indeed yes but that is not its primary function .

I see many swords as functional art ; the question is can the rest of society view them the same way ?

[BSMStar]

It seems that we are reaching into a very personal area... as to experience and choice of paths and where you are on the path (so to speak).

Awareness. Knowledge. Wisdom. Enlightenment.

Hand someone a rare meteorite and ask them what they think about it.....

You will get answers from, its just a rock... to bright eyed wonderment at holding a great mystery of the universe. There is no surprise to get similar responses with edged weapons. In fact, I would be surprised if there wasn't some level of revulsion, as stated before... look at its intended use.

Personally, I collect for the Art, beauty and the enjoyment it brings... and keeping a healthy respect for the intended use. Rightly or wrongly, they have carried mankind though history and in a sense, have molded us into what we are today. I can not think of anyone (that I know) that does not have or use edged steel in their everyday life. It truly is apart of us. Therefore it is no surprise, as with everything that man decorates himself, that it has become art.

Best Regards

[Tim Simmons]

Ahh! but is it ART?

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Ahh! but is it ART?

If ART is "the creation of beautiful or significant things..."

I am near the Ozarks, "if it looks per'ty... then its art." Art that happens to slice and dice and make mounds of Julian French Fries!

(... I was dreaming that I was a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man?)