Pls help me identify this sword

VVV · 2nd December 2004, 02:39 PM

Hi all,

I am new to this forum but have been collecting for some time with focus on SE Asian and West Asian weapons.
Yesterday I bought this sword at eBay. I, as well as the Seller, couldn't find it in our reference books. Anybody who could help?

Mike

RhysMichael · 2nd December 2004, 05:15 PM

Not sure on this one but someone here will certainly know. It looks Malay or Moro to me. Maybe some type of Panabas ?

VVV · 2nd December 2004, 05:43 PM

Thanks,

That was my guess also.
But I have never seen it mounted in this way before?

Mike

Federico · 2nd December 2004, 07:09 PM

I watched this auction as well, and I could have sworn something similar has come up for discussion in the past, and the conclusion was that it was a Malay sword of some type. My own gut reaction, from the scabbard, and pommel form is that it is Malay not Moro. Though I can definitely see some features that could be Moro-esque. The ferrule kinda reminds me of a Sulu punto, and I suppose the pommel could pass as a horse hoof type of some kind. But there is just something about this piece that just seems non-Moro to me. It'll be interesting to hear what those with more experience with Malay weaponry have to say.

Rick · 2nd December 2004, 09:10 PM

The carving on the scabbard looks slightly reminiscent of Dyak work .

Ian · 2nd December 2004, 09:48 PM

Agree with Federico and Rick. The hilt, especially the pommel, and scabbard looks fairly typical dyak work. The blade has a strong Malay flavor. Not as flamboyant as the parang pattani that DA Henkel posted some time ago. I think Adni could probably give us the correct name for this blade.

My guess is (N.) Borneo for the origin of this one.

Justin · 3rd December 2004, 03:42 AM

Looks a lot like a panabas blade,maybe rehilted to be a sword?

VANDOO · 7th December 2004, 05:24 PM

I HAVE ONE OF THESE AND HAVE ALWAYS CONSIDERED IT TO BE A MALAY OR DAYAK PARANG. IT HAS A VERY THICK HEAVY BLADE AND WOULD DELIVER A HEAVY BLOW LIKE THE PANABAS BUT IS DESIGNED MORE FOR ONE HAND USE. IT IS GOOD TO SEE WHAT THE SCABBARD LOOKS LIKE AS MINE DOSEN'T HAVE ONE, THE POMEL HAS THE SHAPE OF DAYAK PARANGS AND PARANG LATOK. A NICE FIND!

Federico · 7th December 2004, 06:22 PM

Something I forgot to ask before, distally how thick is the blade on this piece? 1/4", 1/2" etc...

Adni Aljunied · 7th December 2004, 06:27 PM

Yes Vandoo, I also see the parang lotok here from the dayaks of Borneo. I had also came across a couple before without sheaths, and this one has got a good one indeed!
I wouldn't call the dayaks of Borneo Malays at race although they are part of the Malaysian states.
Yes, a good find indeed!

VVV · 7th December 2004, 11:01 PM

Thank you all for the help!!!

I haven't received the sword yet so I can't measure it.
But hope to get it soon and answer the question on the thickness of the blade.

Mike

VVV · 20th June 2012, 08:14 AM

Getting closer to Midsummer here up North I woke up much too early and spent some time on checking museum collections. On the site of American Museum of Natural History I found these two swords donated by Bishop Brent Moro School and collected in the "Philippine Islands".

So it seems like it is Moro after all?

I have only seen one more like this being offered at eBay the last 7 years so I assume that are quite rare.

Michael

PS I haven't figured out how to save the images from this archive as jpg, in case somebody else can add them in another formate to this thread?

kronckew · 20th June 2012, 09:28 AM

hi vvv,

photos saved as jpg & attached:

David · 20th June 2012, 02:13 PM

Wow Michael, it was awesome to open up this thread and see your first post, "I am new to this forum..."

I am sure that your collection and your knowledge base has come a long way in the past 8 years!
I must say that Museum description or not, something still does not seem quite Moro about these. Even though there is provenance of where it was collected, it still does not necessarily mean that is the place of origin. Anything is possible, but stylistically the fittings just don't seem Moro to me.

The Museum of Natural History is a wonderful place (i am originally from New York), but i have seen ethnographic weapons mislabeled there before. They may well be right this time, but i do take their judgement with a little grain of salt at times.

VVV · 20th June 2012, 02:33 PM

Thanks David,

Yes, it was a bit nostalgic to read this old thread again with comments from some forumites that unfortuanetly aren't active anymore.
I fully agree with your comments about mislabeling and grains of salt etc but I have checked all the European museum collections that are available online, too. And I haven't found it in any of them, even if they seem to have almost all kinds of Indonesian swords in there collections. So based on this "negative fact" my conclusion is that, until otherwise proved, I prefer to label it Moro based on the two pictures above (2 > 1

) together with the collection notes that came with them about provenance.
But it would be great if someone else could contribute with an additional piece to this puzzle...

Michael

PS Thanks for the help with the pictures kronckew!

kronckew · 20th June 2012, 06:21 PM

you're most welcome. love those weapons by the way.

2nd December 2004, 02:39 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Pls help me identify this sword Hi all, I am new to this forum but have been collecting for some time with focus on SE Asian and West Asian weapons. Yesterday I bought this sword at eBay. I, as well as the Seller, couldn't find it in our reference books. Anybody who could help? Mike Attached Images

2nd December 2004, 09:48 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Parang -- Borneo/Malay Agree with Federico and Rick. The hilt, especially the pommel, and scabbard looks fairly typical dyak work. The blade has a strong Malay flavor. Not as flamboyant as the parang pattani that DA Henkel posted some time ago. I think Adni could probably give us the correct name for this blade. My guess is (N.) Borneo for the origin of this one.

20th June 2012, 09:28 AM	#13
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	hi vvv, photos saved as jpg & attached: Attached Images

2nd December 2004, 05:15 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Not sure on this one but someone here will certainly know. It looks Malay or Moro to me. Maybe some type of Panabas ?

2nd December 2004, 05:43 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks, That was my guess also. But I have never seen it mounted in this way before? Mike

2nd December 2004, 07:09 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I watched this auction as well, and I could have sworn something similar has come up for discussion in the past, and the conclusion was that it was a Malay sword of some type. My own gut reaction, from the scabbard, and pommel form is that it is Malay not Moro. Though I can definitely see some features that could be Moro-esque. The ferrule kinda reminds me of a Sulu punto, and I suppose the pommel could pass as a horse hoof type of some kind. But there is just something about this piece that just seems non-Moro to me. It'll be interesting to hear what those with more experience with Malay weaponry have to say.

2nd December 2004, 09:10 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	The carving on the scabbard looks slightly reminiscent of Dyak work .

3rd December 2004, 03:42 AM	#7
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Looks a lot like a panabas blade,maybe rehilted to be a sword?

7th December 2004, 05:24 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE ONE OF THESE AND HAVE ALWAYS CONSIDERED IT TO BE A MALAY OR DAYAK PARANG. IT HAS A VERY THICK HEAVY BLADE AND WOULD DELIVER A HEAVY BLOW LIKE THE PANABAS BUT IS DESIGNED MORE FOR ONE HAND USE. IT IS GOOD TO SEE WHAT THE SCABBARD LOOKS LIKE AS MINE DOSEN'T HAVE ONE, THE POMEL HAS THE SHAPE OF DAYAK PARANGS AND PARANG LATOK. A NICE FIND!

7th December 2004, 06:22 PM	#9
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Something I forgot to ask before, distally how thick is the blade on this piece? 1/4", 1/2" etc...

7th December 2004, 06:27 PM	#10
Adni Aljunied Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: singapore Posts: 13	Yes Vandoo, I also see the parang lotok here from the dayaks of Borneo. I had also came across a couple before without sheaths, and this one has got a good one indeed! I wouldn't call the dayaks of Borneo Malays at race although they are part of the Malaysian states. Yes, a good find indeed!

7th December 2004, 11:01 PM	#11
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thank you all for the help!!! I haven't received the sword yet so I can't measure it. But hope to get it soon and answer the question on the thickness of the blade. Mike

20th June 2012, 02:13 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,122	Wow Michael, it was awesome to open up this thread and see your first post, "I am new to this forum..." I am sure that your collection and your knowledge base has come a long way in the past 8 years! I must say that Museum description or not, something still does not seem quite Moro about these. Even though there is provenance of where it was collected, it still does not necessarily mean that is the place of origin. Anything is possible, but stylistically the fittings just don't seem Moro to me. The Museum of Natural History is a wonderful place (i am originally from New York), but i have seen ethnographic weapons mislabeled there before. They may well be right this time, but i do take their judgement with a little grain of salt at times.

20th June 2012, 02:33 PM	#15
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks David, Yes, it was a bit nostalgic to read this old thread again with comments from some forumites that unfortuanetly aren't active anymore. I fully agree with your comments about mislabeling and grains of salt etc but I have checked all the European museum collections that are available online, too. And I haven't found it in any of them, even if they seem to have almost all kinds of Indonesian swords in there collections. So based on this "negative fact" my conclusion is that, until otherwise proved, I prefer to label it Moro based on the two pictures above (2 > 1 ) together with the collection notes that came with them about provenance. But it would be great if someone else could contribute with an additional piece to this puzzle... Michael PS Thanks for the help with the pictures kronckew!

20th June 2012, 06:21 PM	#16
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	you're most welcome. love those weapons by the way.