Pamor Udan Mas

dbhmgb · 20th May 2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Agree, a good hilt and mendak and you have a nice recent keris.

Regards,

Detlef

Done.

Jean · 21st May 2012, 09:28 AM

Another similar piece from my collection and also recent, sorry for the picture quality.
I would like to mention that a specific problem frequently encountered when collecting recently made krisses is that there are many twins on the market (from the same maker?), which is a bit irritating if you aim at owning unique pieces...
Regards

dbhmgb · 21st May 2012, 11:27 AM

Jean,

You make an excellent point!

The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person.

Dan

Jean · 21st May 2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbhmgb

Jean,

You make an excellent point!

The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person.

Dan

Hi Dan,
Yeah, this is actually related to the other thread about collecting new krisses. It would be nice if Gio could show us his similar blade as well for comparison purpose.
I attach another picture of my kris from the other side of the blade.
Regards
Jean

Rick · 21st May 2012, 02:53 PM

It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade .

Good workmanship but a little unimaginative in execution .

dbhmgb · 21st May 2012, 04:25 PM

Just for grins - I threw this together real fast to compare our pamor patterns.

Jean · 21st May 2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade .

Right observation Rick, thanks. This type of repeating pattern seems standard on many modern UM blades. The shape and dapur of both blades also look similar, mine is 37.5 cm long excluding the peksi and was probably made in Madura.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2012, 10:36 PM

Simple dhapur.

Simple pamor.

Same time period.

Same point of geographic origin.

All blades competently made.

Do we really expect to see any variation?

This is what the appraisal of keris is all about:- they are not supposed to display invention and imagination, they are supposed to display uniformity.

Think about it:- if a keris is produced for local consumption, it needs to be made within very narrow parameters in order to be fitted to a correctly formed and proportioned set of dress. If the maker is working to a uniform pattern in one dimension of his work, its no real big effort to maintain that uniformity.

If you look at a selection of very high quality, but simple, Javanese blades from, say, the PBX era, you will find similar uniformity, even though the makers are different.

When we move from simplicity to complexity, say a dhapur with full ricikan, or a complex twist pamor, yes, there we will find the variation in execution that points to different hands being involved.

21st May 2012, 09:28 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Another similar piece from my collection and also recent, sorry for the picture quality. I would like to mention that a specific problem frequently encountered when collecting recently made krisses is that there are many twins on the market (from the same maker?), which is a bit irritating if you aim at owning unique pieces... Regards Attached Images

21st May 2012, 04:25 PM	#6
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Just for grins - I threw this together real fast to compare our pamor patterns. Attached Images

21st May 2012, 11:27 AM	#3
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Jean, You make an excellent point! The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person. Dan

21st May 2012, 02:53 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,288	It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade . Good workmanship but a little unimaginative in execution .

21st May 2012, 10:36 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,873	Simple dhapur. Simple pamor. Same time period. Same point of geographic origin. All blades competently made. Do we really expect to see any variation? This is what the appraisal of keris is all about:- they are not supposed to display invention and imagination, they are supposed to display uniformity. Think about it:- if a keris is produced for local consumption, it needs to be made within very narrow parameters in order to be fitted to a correctly formed and proportioned set of dress. If the maker is working to a uniform pattern in one dimension of his work, its no real big effort to maintain that uniformity. If you look at a selection of very high quality, but simple, Javanese blades from, say, the PBX era, you will find similar uniformity, even though the makers are different. When we move from simplicity to complexity, say a dhapur with full ricikan, or a complex twist pamor, yes, there we will find the variation in execution that points to different hands being involved.