Sumantran Keris ??

katana · 19th April 2012, 05:53 PM

Hi,
I don't often post on this forum, but just acquired this Keris. Heavily rusted, pictures show blade after a 'good' initial clean. Is the parmor a recognised type ?

Please, any ideas as to age and origins ? ....is it a tourist piece ? Would a keris be catagorised differently due to the 'pistol hilt' grip ?

Sorry for all the questions but my knowledge is very limited on these. All comments greatfully received, thank you

Kind Regards David

.

Sajen · 19th April 2012, 05:59 PM

Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.

Here a similar handle from my collection.

Regards,

Detlef

katana · 19th April 2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.

Here a similar handle from my collection.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,
thank you for the quick reply

Nice handle, it seems to be made from a similar 'striped' wood, do you know what it is called ? Can I assume that this Keris is not a tourist piece ?

Kind Regards
David

henri · 20th April 2012, 07:37 AM

Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri

Sajen · 20th April 2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Detlef,
thank you for the quick reply

Nice handle, it seems to be made from a similar 'striped' wood, do you know what it is called ? Can I assume that this Keris is not a tourist piece ?

Kind Regards
David

Hi David,

no, it's not a tourist piece!

The wood is kemuning!

Best regards,

Detlef

Jean · 20th April 2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henri

Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri

Henri,
Your kris is a typical Minangkabau piece from West Sumatra with a simple bahari style blade (straight, thick, and without pamor). The hilt is more stylized than usually.
Regards

Sajen · 20th April 2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Henri,
Your kris is a typical Minangkabau piece from West Sumatra with a simple bahari style blade (straight, thick, and without pamor). The hilt is more stylized than usually.
Regards

Complete agreement!

henri · 20th April 2012, 10:58 PM

Yes Jean , Minangkabau . Just showing similarity for the " front face " .

Henri

henri · 20th April 2012, 10:59 PM

oups .. photos now

Sajen · 20th April 2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henri

oups .. photos now

The hilt from your keris is the same motif in general but different from the hilt David have posted.

Regards,

Detlef

katana · 21st April 2012, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi David,

no, it's not a tourist piece!

The wood is kemuning!

Best regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,
that's great, thank you.

Does the type of wood, Kemuning have any significance or spiritual 'power' ? What does the design of the Sumartran hilt represent ?

Kind Regards David

katana · 21st April 2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henri

Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri

Hi Henri,
thats a very nice example

, are the fittings silver ? Mine only has a brass collar (broken) as shown in the original pictures in my first post.

Can you have a situation where two Keris can have the same quality blade and hilt but the fittings can vary greatly in value / cost ? Or are the more expensive fittings only placed on the better/best quality blades ?

Kind Regards
David

henri · 21st April 2012, 04:57 AM

Hi David
Yes , Silver fittings . Personally I privilege the overall look of the hilt + blade + sheath trying to match the whole lot . Like a costume from shoes to hat . If a piece of garment is not in relation with the others ... terrible ! That s from my French background a long time go .

Jean · 21st April 2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.
Regards,

Detlef

Has anybody a clear idea about the origin of this blade? For me it looks Sumatran and it has some Bugis influence but is not typically Bugis (ganja iras, shape of the sor-soran, kembang kacang and greneng, the dapur is not clearly sepokal, etc...).
Regards

Sajen · 21st April 2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Detlef,
that's great, thank you.

Does the type of wood, Kemuning have any significance or spiritual 'power' ? What does the design of the Sumartran hilt represent ?

Kind Regards David

Hi David,

don't think that the kemuning wood have any signifiance or spiritual power, it is a nice and good expensive wood, that's "all" IMHO.

This hilts are called kerdas, some people believe that it shall present garuda but this I would take personally with a pinch of salt.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 21st April 2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Has anybody a clear idea about the origin of this blade? For me it looks Sumatran and it has some Bugis influence but is not typically Bugis (ganja iras, shape of the sor-soran, kembang kacang and greneng, the dapur is not clearly sepokal, etc...).
Regards

Hello Jean,

it was just my uneducated guess!

Agree with you that it is not clear a typical Bugis blade and since it seems to be a original ensemble (hilt and blade) it is most probable that it is a Bugis influenced Sumatra keris respectively blade. BTW it is not so uncommon to see "Bugis" blades which are iras, see for example this keris from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11592
Of course it seems difficult to fix down the exact origin of this keris without sheath.
Would be very interesting to read the opinion from Kei Wee or Alam Shah about this blade.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 21st April 2012, 04:31 PM

Here are again some pictures from my iras "Bugis" blade. BTW the pamor of this blade seems to be very similar with the pamor from Davids blade.

Regards,

Detlef

19th April 2012, 05:53 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Sumantran Keris ?? Hi, I don't often post on this forum, but just acquired this Keris. Heavily rusted, pictures show blade after a 'good' initial clean. Is the parmor a recognised type ? Please, any ideas as to age and origins ? ....is it a tourist piece ? Would a keris be catagorised differently due to the 'pistol hilt' grip ? Sorry for all the questions but my knowledge is very limited on these. All comments greatfully received, thank you Kind Regards David . Attached Images

19th April 2012, 05:59 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung. Here a similar handle from my collection. Regards, Detlef Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 19th April 2012 at 06:10 PM.

20th April 2012, 07:37 AM	#4
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have . Henri Attached Images

20th April 2012, 10:59 PM	#9
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	oups .. photos now Attached Images

21st April 2012, 04:31 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here are again some pictures from my iras "Bugis" blade. BTW the pamor of this blade seems to be very similar with the pamor from Davids blade. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

20th April 2012, 10:58 PM	#8
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Yes Jean , Minangkabau . Just showing similarity for the " front face " . Henri

21st April 2012, 04:57 AM	#13
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Hi David Yes , Silver fittings . Personally I privilege the overall look of the hilt + blade + sheath trying to match the whole lot . Like a costume from shoes to hat . If a piece of garment is not in relation with the others ... terrible ! That s from my French background a long time go .