New Tajong with copper beak

[ariel]

Gentlemen,
This is definitely not my area of knowledge and passion, but I could not resist the e-bay offering.
Therefore, I would most appreciate your help and opinions on the age and quality of this tajong.

The scabbard consists of two parts, and they are separated. the line beween them is not straight, with a small gap, but doesn't look broken. The largest " wing" has some small losses of wood.

The handle is covered in some kind of black varnish, and a lot of it. The beak looks like copper. I took it to local jewelry store to test for swaasa. They got a new laser gizmo to test for precious metals, and the beak was the first time they actually used it. I was told that there was no gold, but may take it to another store to retest ( they did not seem to know how to use the gizmo very well).

The blade is very healthy, thick, with no active rust and no obvious losses. However, it is completely covered with dark patina-like darkening.


To show the details of the carving and the blade, I photographed them both with and w/o flash.

Should I try and remove the varnish? How? should I clean and polish the blade? Should I try and re-glue the scabbard? Fill the gap?

Do you need any more pictures?

Thank you very much in advance.

[ariel]

+1

[ariel]

+2

[David]

I'd like to see better photos of the hilt. I can't tell much about it from these as to the quality of it from these shots. As you say Ariel, this is not really your avenue. I would therefore recommend you do very little to this. There are special methods for cleaning keris blades and if it is not your thing the less done the better. I would oil the blade well, maybe brushing it with a soft toothbrush a bit to remove any surface rust. The hilt need a pendokok so you might want to look into that.
I wouldn't necessarily fill gaps, but i would re-glue the sheath.

[David]

Nevermind, seems you posted more pics while i was writing...

[ariel]

Glad that's enough for you to render your opinion on the quality and age, as I asked.
The biggest problem is that the varnish is so thick that the crispness of carving is obscured by it. You can see on some pics that there were at least 2 and possibly more layers. I cannot even see the material of the handle. Since there are some cracks at the back of it, I assume it is wood. But what kind, I do not know.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by ariel

Gentlemen,
This is definitely not my area of knowledge and passion, but I could not resist the e-bay offering.
Therefore, I would most appreciate your help and opinions on the age and quality of this tajong.

The scabbard consists of two parts, and they are separated. the line beween them is not straight, with a small gap, but doesn't look broken. The largest " wing" has some small losses of wood.

The handle is covered in some kind of black varnish, and a lot of it. The beak looks like copper. I took it to local jewelry store to test for swaasa. They got a new laser gizmo to test for precious metals, and the beak was the first time they actually used it. I was told that there was no gold, but may take it to another store to retest ( they did not seem to know how to use the gizmo very well).

The blade is very healthy, thick, with no active rust and no obvious losses. However, it is completely covered with dark patina-like darkening.


To show the details of the carving and the blade, I photographed them both with and w/o flash.

Should I try and remove the varnish? How? should I clean and polish the blade? Should I try and re-glue the scabbard? Fill the gap?

Do you need any more pictures?

Thank you very much in advance.

Hello Ariel,

I think you have get a good old Tajong there. The first step I would do is to reglue the two parts of the sheath. Look before if there is old glue and when remove carefully this old glue with a sharp knife. When you have removed this old glue put them together and look, maybe the gap isn't anymore. Use wood glue and not any chemical glue for this.
About the handle: Try carefully at a small area to remove the varnish with lighter fuel. It is maybe shellac and it will be possible to remove it with it. When this will be possible you have very good luck since it will be possible to remove this ugly varnish without destroy the very nice handle. the beak I would polish carefully, by the colour you will see if it is suassa.
This is what I would do. But please do all very carefully because you have a very nice and worthy keris in your hands. You can be happy that I haven't seen this auction!!
Please inform about your success.
Look also this thread where I have done a restauration of a Tajong: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tajong
Maybe this thread will be of some help for your project.

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Glad that's enough for you to render your opinion on the quality and age, as I asked.

Well Ariel, since i rendered an opinion on neither i find it hard not to read this statement as sarcasm and can only advise that you reel that in...

[ariel]

No sarcasm was intended. I just reiterated the scope of my inquiries after you said the pics were OK.

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

No sarcasm was intended. I just reiterated the scope of my inquiries after you said the pics were OK.

Fair enough...

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef's recommendation to use a traditional wood glue is the recommendation you could probably expect from most European based collectors. In fact, the real dyed in the wool people would recommend that you used a fish based glue, even if you needed to make it yourself. This is perhaps a legitimate approach for people who wish to keep things exactly as they were. It is not the approach that is currently used in Jawa, not is it the most practical nor logical approach.

However, when using any type of wood glue you need to ensure firstly that you achieve a very neat press fit between the surfaces to be glued together, then you need to ensure that absolutely no glue gets inside the scabbard where it might come into contact with the blade, because wood glues will generate rust if in contact with ferric materials.

In Jawa, the traditional adhesive for a wrongko is button shellac. This is good for use with a scabbard that has a pendok --- the metal over-sheath --- and for scabbards that do not use a pendok, instant glues and two part epoxy resins have been used by the professionals in the field since these became available.

S**T and DISASTER!!!!

Super Glue and Araldite!!!

The whole culture has been corrupted by the modern world!!

The thing is this:- Araldite does a far, far better job than any traditional glue, and it does not generate rust if it comes into contact with the blade. Because of this, the professional scabbard makers in Central Jawa have used these modern adhesives since they came onto the market, which in the case of Araldite, is probably around 40 years ago.

In any case, whether you choose to boil down a few kilos of fish to make fish glue, or whether you choose to use a two part epoxy resin, the important thing is to get close contact of the mating surfaces. Clean thoroughly, score, if necessary use one or more paper thin slivers of wood to achieve a close fit --- bamboo is good for this, brush the blade with silicon car polish as a release agent, prepare a neatly fitting wedge to bring the mating surfaces into contact when you glue, use the car polish on the wedge also. Apply very thin coat of adhesive to each mating surface, put the two parts of the scabbard together, insert the blade, align for good fit of blade to scabbard, hold the two scabbard parts together, withdraw the blade, insert the wedge. Allow the adhesive to go firm but not set, and clean off excess from outside scabbard, when the adhesive has set but not cured, clean up the excess from inside the scabbard, a quarter inch chisel is good for this. Brush the blade clean with mineral turpentine after the adhesive has set.

After the adhesive has cured a light hand rub of the scabbard with a wood oil, or baby oil, will help to loosen up surface dirt, which can then be wiped off with a soft cloth, and you can assess what additional work can safely be carried out.

[Rick]

Fish Glue is available commercially in the US, Alan .
Perfect advice on the treatment of a freshly glued surface .

[A. G. Maisey]

We used to be able to get it here in Oz, I can remember my father using it on restorations. Mostly I remember the smell. The last specialist cabinet makers supplier closed down in Sydney a couple years back, I don't know where to buy any of the specialist materials these days.

[Jentayu]

Nice old tajong you got there Ariel. Congrats. The blade seemed to be carita of the peninsula region. If you ever get tired of it, I would be glad to give it a new home...

[ariel]

Many thanks for the comments and suggestions. I am eagerly awaiting more of the both.
In particular, although it was mentioned that the tajong is "old", - how old?
What is your view of the quality of carvings ( even smothered in varnish) and the beak?
I know virtually nothing about krises and bought this one purely as a "gut reaction"; therefore, every educational hint would be greatly appreciated.

[Rick]

Fish glue can be got from Lee Valley Tools .

Ariel, I'm a bit confused by the gross amount of finish on this hilt; could it be hiding something not so nice ?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Rick

Fish glue can be got from Lee Valley Tools .

Ariel, I'm a bit confused by the gross amount of finish on this hilt; could it be hiding something not so nice ?

Theoretically yes, but I doubt it. Look at the line between the carving and the beak: it is very elaborate, precise and elegant. Tough to imagine that the carver spent so much energy on this part of the handle, but carved the rest of it so poorly that he had to hide the ugliness.

[Rick]

Will you strip the finish, then ?

[ariel]

Absolutely not. My knee-jerk reaction is to leave it to the next owner, hopefully more keris-oriented than I am.

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Absolutely not. My knee-jerk reaction is to leave it to the next owner, hopefully more keris-oriented than I am.

So your intentions are to gather info for resale then?

[ariel]

My intentions are to gather information.
I intend to keep it and to learn as much as I can.
However, as I said from the very beginning, this is not my main area of interest, and at some stage of the game I hope to find a new and more interested owner for this tajong.
Any objections? Have I violated any rules?

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Any objections? Have I violated any rules?

Not at all Ariel. But you shouldn't be surprised that your last comment raised the question...

[ariel]

I am glad everything is in the open.