There Will Be Piras

ThePepperSkull · 31st August 2011, 07:01 PM

I recenly acquired this Pira and wanted to post pictures to both share for the archives and I was wondering about its handle.

The blade is a very nice example of the earlier pira form... but I'm not too familiar with the type of hilt. I'm more used to the hilt with the longer, curving crest. Would this be indicative of something in particular? age/region of origin/purpose as a weapon or tool?

From the pictures I think the hilt has been coated in some sort of shellac? Perhaps tree sap? I can see some of it chipping at the edges of the handle... Either that or I'm crazy. We'll see when I actually recieve it and post pictures of my own.

In the meantime, here are photos provided from the auction page:

Rick · 1st September 2011, 12:23 AM

Any chance the 'crest' has been broken off and it has been recarved ?

KuKulzA28 · 1st September 2011, 02:48 AM

I wanted to bid on this, but I'm glad you got it!
Please, more pictures when you have it in your hands.

ThePepperSkull · 1st September 2011, 03:17 AM

@rick: I suspect this may be the case as well. The hilt looks like it ends prematurely. I'll post pics of the buttend once I recieve it.

@KuKulzA28: You know I wouldn't pass up the opportunity for a good pira!

Also, I've noticed that quite a bit of Piras (this one included) to be made of sandwich construction (steel in the centre, iron on either side). To me this seems to be the only method of construction in pira blades aside from monosteel in newer ones. Have there been any different examples? like patterned blades or twistcore, or did the Yakan produce exclusively sandwich construction blades?

mross · 7th September 2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Any chance the 'crest' has been broken off and it has been recarved ?

I was just watching this one as I think the crest was broken and had been reworked as well. Nice blade, looked good in the photo's

kai · 8th September 2011, 01:42 AM

Congrats!

That certainly looks like a broken "crest" to me. The hilt seems to have shiny patina rather than laquer.

Quote:

Also, I've noticed that quite a bit of Piras (this one included) to be made of sandwich construction (steel in the centre, iron on either side). To me this seems to be the only method of construction in pira blades aside from monosteel in newer ones. Have there been any different examples? like patterned blades or twistcore, or did the Yakan produce exclusively sandwich construction blades?

Sandwich construction is the only traditional method for bladesmiths throughout the SEA archipelago aside from inserted edge (maybe more like a variant than a really different construction method at least as far as function is concerned) and very rare exceptions (like the odd keris without a steel core).

What is being used for the outer layers does vary though: Often it's "random" low-contrast pamor (usually of the mlumah type) - the inevitable result of forging out impurities; high-contrast pamor is for showing off and can be of the mlumah type as well as the miring type with Moro status pieces.So far, I haven't seen any pira (nor bangkung) with high-contrast pamor but I'm sure Michael will show us one with twist-core sooner or later...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 10th September 2011, 01:13 AM

n/t

ThePepperSkull · 18th September 2011, 09:52 PM

Thanks for the visual reference, rick!

The pira came in yesterday. Will take pics when I have time, but quickly came to post a few notes:

- The blade is tapered. at the base it is 6.5mm thick, and tapers to less than 2mm thick near the tip. Seems a tad slim for a non-modern/old moro piece, but my frame of reference is mainly from Kris. Is this common for Pira of this shape? I have another pira of the "newer' blade shape that is thicker. Would thickness be any indication of age or quality? It definitely feels good in-hand and is not whippy. Very solid.

- Length of the blade is a whopping 20 inches (51cm)

- Upon closer inspection, the blade seems to be laminated in a low contrast pattern, as kai predicted. I was thinking about doing a light citric etch as someone seems to have polished it almost to a shine at one point.

- As Kai also said, it turns out the patina on the handle is shiny rather than there being some type of laquer on it.

- Length of the handle is 6.5 inches (16.5 cm) but was probably longer orginally due to the broken crest

- The patina at the butt end of the hilt is lighter and does seem to me to indicate that the crest was broken off and then smoothed out at one point. I will post pictures of this.

- There are filings at the base of the spine that we see in many philippine/moro blades. The familiar ||X| pattern is filed in.

- there are scratch marks on the wood from the shaping of the handle. This and the next bit are why I believe this to belong to someone who was not necessarily of status.

- The brass punto (metal hilt collar/sleeve) is significantly less wide than the handle it is on. Is this indicative of any particular group's style of assembly? I know that the Pira have been attributed to the Yakan and Samal, but what are the differences between piras made by each group? This Punto style seems new to me, as most of the ones I see on other pira are silver and have the look similar to most Barung (i.e. longer slength in the punto, lined up well at the base with the wooden hilt, tapering out in 'rings' once it gets closer to the blade). Then again, it could be because of its owner. It does not seem to me like a status piece.

Battara · 18th September 2011, 10:53 PM

Congratulations - sounds like the real deal, especially with the "X" marks on the spine.

Rick · 19th September 2011, 01:27 AM

The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" .
Light = fast .
(Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher .

*Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 02:22 AM

I believe piras and barungs have always come in a variety of thicknesses and lengths. Hand forging steel is far from an exact process, and yes, lighter blades are of course faster, so the thickness might vary depending on the needs of the user and the materials the smith started with. I had the good fortune of handling dozens of well-made barungs and piras last week. While newer pieces (1940s up), there was quite a variety of blade thicknesses.

As for agricultural piras: I believe there have always been agricultural barungs, and I just picked up an interesting itak that resembles a pira (I bought it in Zamboanga, a stone's throw from Basilan). It also resembles a Malay parang lading to some extent. Definitely an interesting piece! I believe the smiths that crafted it are Tausug since they do turn out a lot of barungs (agricultural and combat use versions).

KuKulzA28 · 19th September 2011, 02:29 AM

Dave thats awesome! Hope you find the time to post up pictures soon!

harimauhk, I can't comment on Moro agricultural blades specifically, but don't the Visayan islands have their own barong which (at least today's examples) seem a lot more agricultural? They look almost like chubby garabs with a little more weight forward, but the barong's leaf-shape is present...

or maybe I am just getting confused..

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 02:37 AM

Hi Kuk,

Yes, there are agricultural barungs in the Central Visayas, but I believe that came about through cultural exchange between the Bangsamoro tribes and the Bisaya/Cebuano. BTW, I also picked up an agricultural barung crafted by the same Zamboanga smiths, and a karit (sickle) I saw used for slicing through banana stems.

It would definitely allay all doubt if someone had an antique version of an agricultural barung/pira, but I guess farm tools wouldn't be cared for and passed down in the same manner.

KuKulzA28 · 19th September 2011, 02:58 AM

Good points, as always thanks for contributing your knowledge! Let's guys like me learn up and get a little closer to knowing a thing or two about the Filipino and Moro weapons / martial history.

By the way... karit? Like... arit or clurit? Same type of word?

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 03:06 AM

Yes, arit, karit and celurit are all very close aren't they?

Karit is actually Tagalog--I'm not sure what they are called in Sulu. In Cebuano they are called sanggot or sanggut, and sangud is the term in Chavacano.

I'm still looking to add a celurit to the collection! I hope to explore more of Indonesia in the years to come.

ThePepperSkull · 19th September 2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" .
Light = fast .
(Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher .

*Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

Definitely. It's got a deep distal taper as well which also makes it feel lighter. I find that many SEA blades that are specifically made as weapons have a more profound distal tapering than the SEA blades intended for agriculture or general bushtool use, which have an almost uniform blade thickness.

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Definitely. It's got a deep distal taper as well which also makes it feel lighter. I find that many SEA blades that are specifically made as weapons have a more profound distal tapering than the SEA blades intended for agriculture or general bushtool use, which have an almost uniform blade thickness.

Dave, virtually all of the Filipino agricultural blades I've handled over the last two years have distal tapers: go figure! Interestingly, the two modern piras I picked up do not taper much.

Nirghosa · 20th September 2011, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Yes, arit, karit and celurit are all very close aren't they?

Karit is actually Tagalog--I'm not sure what they are called in Sulu. In Cebuano they are called sanggot or sanggut, and sangud is the term in Chavacano.

I'm still looking to add a celurit to the collection! I hope to explore more of Indonesia in the years to come.

How about a pic of that karit?

ThePepperSkull · 20th September 2011, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Dave, virtually all of the Filipino agricultural blades I've handled over the last two years have distal tapers: go figure! Interestingly, the two modern piras I picked up do not taper much.

d'oh! wrong again!

Yeah, my pira made in '92 has no distal taper either.

31st August 2011, 07:01 PM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	There Will Be Piras I recenly acquired this Pira and wanted to post pictures to both share for the archives and I was wondering about its handle. The blade is a very nice example of the earlier pira form... but I'm not too familiar with the type of hilt. I'm more used to the hilt with the longer, curving crest. Would this be indicative of something in particular? age/region of origin/purpose as a weapon or tool? From the pictures I think the hilt has been coated in some sort of shellac? Perhaps tree sap? I can see some of it chipping at the edges of the handle... Either that or I'm crazy. We'll see when I actually recieve it and post pictures of my own. In the meantime, here are photos provided from the auction page: Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 31st August 2011 at 07:19 PM.

1st September 2011, 02:48 AM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I wanted to bid on this, but I'm glad you got it! Please, more pictures when you have it in your hands. Last edited by KuKulzA28; 1st September 2011 at 02:59 AM.

10th September 2011, 01:13 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	n/t Attached Images

19th September 2011, 01:27 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	What's In A Name ? The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" . Light = fast . (Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher . *Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

19th September 2011, 02:22 AM	#11
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I believe piras and barungs have always come in a variety of thicknesses and lengths. Hand forging steel is far from an exact process, and yes, lighter blades are of course faster, so the thickness might vary depending on the needs of the user and the materials the smith started with. I had the good fortune of handling dozens of well-made barungs and piras last week. While newer pieces (1940s up), there was quite a variety of blade thicknesses. As for agricultural piras: I believe there have always been agricultural barungs, and I just picked up an interesting itak that resembles a pira (I bought it in Zamboanga, a stone's throw from Basilan). It also resembles a Malay parang lading to some extent. Definitely an interesting piece! I believe the smiths that crafted it are Tausug since they do turn out a lot of barungs (agricultural and combat use versions). Last edited by harimauhk; 19th September 2011 at 02:41 AM.

1st September 2011, 12:23 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Any chance the 'crest' has been broken off and it has been recarved ?

1st September 2011, 03:17 AM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	@rick: I suspect this may be the case as well. The hilt looks like it ends prematurely. I'll post pics of the buttend once I recieve it. @KuKulzA28: You know I wouldn't pass up the opportunity for a good pira! Also, I've noticed that quite a bit of Piras (this one included) to be made of sandwich construction (steel in the centre, iron on either side). To me this seems to be the only method of construction in pira blades aside from monosteel in newer ones. Have there been any different examples? like patterned blades or twistcore, or did the Yakan produce exclusively sandwich construction blades?

18th September 2011, 09:52 PM	#8
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks for the visual reference, rick! The pira came in yesterday. Will take pics when I have time, but quickly came to post a few notes: - The blade is tapered. at the base it is 6.5mm thick, and tapers to less than 2mm thick near the tip. Seems a tad slim for a non-modern/old moro piece, but my frame of reference is mainly from Kris. Is this common for Pira of this shape? I have another pira of the "newer' blade shape that is thicker. Would thickness be any indication of age or quality? It definitely feels good in-hand and is not whippy. Very solid. - Length of the blade is a whopping 20 inches (51cm) - Upon closer inspection, the blade seems to be laminated in a low contrast pattern, as kai predicted. I was thinking about doing a light citric etch as someone seems to have polished it almost to a shine at one point. - As Kai also said, it turns out the patina on the handle is shiny rather than there being some type of laquer on it. - Length of the handle is 6.5 inches (16.5 cm) but was probably longer orginally due to the broken crest - The patina at the butt end of the hilt is lighter and does seem to me to indicate that the crest was broken off and then smoothed out at one point. I will post pictures of this. - There are filings at the base of the spine that we see in many philippine/moro blades. The familiar \|\|X\| pattern is filed in. - there are scratch marks on the wood from the shaping of the handle. This and the next bit are why I believe this to belong to someone who was not necessarily of status. - The brass punto (metal hilt collar/sleeve) is significantly less wide than the handle it is on. Is this indicative of any particular group's style of assembly? I know that the Pira have been attributed to the Yakan and Samal, but what are the differences between piras made by each group? This Punto style seems new to me, as most of the ones I see on other pira are silver and have the look similar to most Barung (i.e. longer slength in the punto, lined up well at the base with the wooden hilt, tapering out in 'rings' once it gets closer to the blade). Then again, it could be because of its owner. It does not seem to me like a status piece.

18th September 2011, 10:53 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Congratulations - sounds like the real deal, especially with the "X" marks on the spine.

19th September 2011, 02:29 AM	#12
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Dave thats awesome! Hope you find the time to post up pictures soon! harimauhk, I can't comment on Moro agricultural blades specifically, but don't the Visayan islands have their own barong which (at least today's examples) seem a lot more agricultural? They look almost like chubby garabs with a little more weight forward, but the barong's leaf-shape is present... or maybe I am just getting confused..

19th September 2011, 02:37 AM	#13
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hi Kuk, Yes, there are agricultural barungs in the Central Visayas, but I believe that came about through cultural exchange between the Bangsamoro tribes and the Bisaya/Cebuano. BTW, I also picked up an agricultural barung crafted by the same Zamboanga smiths, and a karit (sickle) I saw used for slicing through banana stems. It would definitely allay all doubt if someone had an antique version of an agricultural barung/pira, but I guess farm tools wouldn't be cared for and passed down in the same manner.

19th September 2011, 02:58 AM	#14
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Good points, as always thanks for contributing your knowledge! Let's guys like me learn up and get a little closer to knowing a thing or two about the Filipino and Moro weapons / martial history. By the way... karit? Like... arit or clurit? Same type of word?

19th September 2011, 03:06 AM	#15
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Yes, arit, karit and celurit are all very close aren't they? Karit is actually Tagalog--I'm not sure what they are called in Sulu. In Cebuano they are called sanggot or sanggut, and sangud is the term in Chavacano. I'm still looking to add a celurit to the collection! I hope to explore more of Indonesia in the years to come.