I have no idea

asomotif · 12th August 2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirek

Who did not have a naga keris from Madura

EEK

this one is really over the top.

I tried to find my beginners mistake.
I can only think of the spanish made samurai swords that I bought when I was in my teens. They are hidden in the closet, not to be exposed

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2011, 11:01 PM

Jean, I do not agree with "made for the tourist trade".

I see this phrase , or something like it, often, and it is just straight out wrong.

The two keris that you have shown are of reasonable quality, and would have been produced for the local market in Indonesia.

The keris is a part of Javanese formal dress, and there are only so many old blades that are suitable for use as a dress keris. The biggest market for modern keris production is the local market in Indonesia itself, it is not tourists nor is it western collectors.

The best of modern production is spoken for before it is even produced, and it finishes up with keris connoisseurs in Indonesia, or to people outside Indonesia who have the right connections.

The bulk of other modern production goes into the local market and is bought by Indonesians.

Yes, of course there are keris that are directed specifically at tourists, and these are of abysmal quality, often just pieces of sheet iron for a blade that holds together an elaborately carved scabbard and hilt.

The keris that Joshua has shown us is probably towards the upper end of the products that tourists have the opportunity to buy.

The keris that you have shown us are mid-quality current production intended for the Indonesian market.

On the subject of mistakes, the very first keris I ever bought in Indonesia was a monumental mistake. At the time I bought it I already had many years experience in collecting keris, and I thought I was pretty clever. I was approached in the courtyard of a hotel in Menteng and offered a very beautiful (in my eyes at that time) keris with a waved blade, a singo barong, and dripping with gold. I paid a pretty good price for it. Eventually I found out that it was an altered blade with the singo barong a later addition, and the weld joint hidden by gold.

Yep, we all make errors.

David · 13th August 2011, 04:46 AM

I agree with you Alan that Jean's examples are of a somewhat higher quality level than the one that started this thread. I would also agree that the term "tourist keris" is one that gets thrown around far too often and is not always correct, but given the molded resin hilt and over all quality of Joshua's keris which looks to have brass "kinatah" instead of gold i am more inclined to accept that designation for this blade.

A. G. Maisey · 13th August 2011, 06:38 AM

As I am myself, David, but towards the upper end of the souvenir market.

Jean · 13th August 2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The two keris that you have shown are of reasonable quality, and would have been produced for the local market in Indonesia.

Hello Alan,
Good news, thanks. I bought the blade shown at the bottom of the picture from the late H.B Hardiono from Surabaya, a very famous kris collector and trader. I bought it because of the very nice sarong & hilt so it was probably a dress kris indeed.

Best regards
Jean

sirek · 13th August 2011, 09:38 AM

[QUOTE=asomotif]EEK

this one is really over the top.

This model is even exhibited in a museum (muzium perak- Malaysia)

Therefore I do not see it as a tourist keris, but as a reproduction keris

Jean · 13th August 2011, 12:20 PM

[QUOTE=sirek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

EEK

this one is really over the top.

This model is even exhibited in a museum (muzium perak- Malaysia)

Therefore I do not see it as a tourist keris, but as a reproduction keris

Yeah, this is what some sellers call "museum quality"

but does it really reproduce an old kris or rather be considered as a modern art piece?

13th August 2011, 09:38 AM	#6
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 166	[QUOTE=asomotif]EEK this one is really over the top. This model is even exhibited in a museum (muzium perak- Malaysia) Therefore I do not see it as a tourist keris, but as a reproduction keris Attached Images

12th August 2011, 11:01 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,770	Jean, I do not agree with "made for the tourist trade". I see this phrase , or something like it, often, and it is just straight out wrong. The two keris that you have shown are of reasonable quality, and would have been produced for the local market in Indonesia. The keris is a part of Javanese formal dress, and there are only so many old blades that are suitable for use as a dress keris. The biggest market for modern keris production is the local market in Indonesia itself, it is not tourists nor is it western collectors. The best of modern production is spoken for before it is even produced, and it finishes up with keris connoisseurs in Indonesia, or to people outside Indonesia who have the right connections. The bulk of other modern production goes into the local market and is bought by Indonesians. Yes, of course there are keris that are directed specifically at tourists, and these are of abysmal quality, often just pieces of sheet iron for a blade that holds together an elaborately carved scabbard and hilt. The keris that Joshua has shown us is probably towards the upper end of the products that tourists have the opportunity to buy. The keris that you have shown us are mid-quality current production intended for the Indonesian market. On the subject of mistakes, the very first keris I ever bought in Indonesia was a monumental mistake. At the time I bought it I already had many years experience in collecting keris, and I thought I was pretty clever. I was approached in the courtyard of a hotel in Menteng and offered a very beautiful (in my eyes at that time) keris with a waved blade, a singo barong, and dripping with gold. I paid a pretty good price for it. Eventually I found out that it was an altered blade with the singo barong a later addition, and the weld joint hidden by gold. Yep, we all make errors.

13th August 2011, 04:46 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,061	I agree with you Alan that Jean's examples are of a somewhat higher quality level than the one that started this thread. I would also agree that the term "tourist keris" is one that gets thrown around far too often and is not always correct, but given the molded resin hilt and over all quality of Joshua's keris which looks to have brass "kinatah" instead of gold i am more inclined to accept that designation for this blade.

13th August 2011, 06:38 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,770	As I am myself, David, but towards the upper end of the souvenir market.