Little SEA knife for ID

[Royston]

Michael

I still think that these are too ornate to be a simple agricultural tool. I agree with what Alan says about ornamenting everyday work tools but these designs are usually much cruder and simpler. If I could carve like this I don't think I would be an agricultural labourer, I would be carving for a living. To me, they appear "too good" for agricultural work. None of the examples shown so far show any sign of "everyday" use. ( OK I accept that they may have been bought but not used ).
Unfortunately I cannot come up with an answer as to their use.

Roy

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Michael, you are of course correct:- one cannot know something with certainty, ever.

Even if one were present at the time and place of production, and the person producing was a close friend or family member, the reason given for production could still be totally incorrect.

If one wishes to adopt this style of reasoning, there is nothing in creation that can be accepted as it appears.

In fact, we are now verging upon the philosophy of my chosen profession, so I do understand this approach reasonably well.

However --- here we are talking about objects that fall within the ambit of simple folk art. If one were a part of the relevant community, it would be reasonable to expect that one would have a clear understanding of the reasons for being of the objects we are discussing, and their ornamentation.


Roy, your thoughts are absolutely correct when applied against your own cultural and societal background:- somebody in your society who could could carve to a standard as shown in the objects being discussed here, could reasonably expect to earn a living from that skill.

However, that line of reasoning simply does not apply in Jawa, Bali, and I assume most other S.E.A. communities.

As an example. We are familiar with the hilts of Dyak and Kenyan sword hilts. These are prized items of tribal art and the prices realised for the best of them, once they move from collectors of weaponry, to collectors of tribal art, are truly astounding.

However, these hilts were carved in all cases , not by professional carvers, but by the owner of the sword and were read within the community as evidence of that man's ability to appreciate the finer things in life, demonstrating that he was not just a mindless head-taker. It demonstrated his suitability for marriage, and thus his suitability to contribute to the continuation of the group of which he was a part.

Over the years I have seen many examples of art that has been produced by ordinary people in Jawa and Bali. It seems to be an inherent ability that many people in these cultures possess, and it is not necessarily used to produce money.

Another example along the same lines. Up until a year or so ago it was possible to buy and to order very finely carved hilts from Madura. These were not cheap, but they were as good as anything I have ever seen. On my last visit I attempted to place an order for a hilt type I wanted to add to my own collection. I was told that the man who used to do these hilts had stopped working on hilt production, and had gone back to tobacco farming, because there was more money in growing tobacco than in carving hilts. He had been a farmer before he started to carve hilts, he went back to farming.

When we try to understand the how, when, where, and why of our shared interests here, we need to have a fabric against which we can measure our reasoning and conclusions, and that fabric is in most cases completely different to one we apply in everyday circumstances in the communities in which most of us live.

[tom hyle]

likewise the idea that agriculture is lowly or unimportant can be both culture- and class-specific. There wasathread where Billman showed us highly ornamented European bill hooks.
Might Sajen's handle be on backwards? This is an extremely common fate for old wedge-tang E Asian blades that have crossed cultures.
I've seen a few where the cross-cultured new owner had been so determined and unable to conceive the hilt going on in what would in his culture be the "wrong" way (though originally correct), that the asymetry of the tang split the handle. But most E Asian tangs are fairly well suited to easy reversing. I have recently purchased a kampilan with its handle on backward so it handles like a Chinese dao. I was hoping to pull it or tap it off, but someone did one heck of a job of putting it on backwards
Consider what Visayans do with a kris sundang (they put the handle on backwards).

[Royston]

(Roy, your thoughts are absolutely correct when applied against your own cultural and societal background:- somebody in your society who could could carve to a standard as shown in the objects being discussed here, could reasonably expect to earn a living from that skill.)

OK Alan, I can accept this. However I still find it difficult to accept that the little arits are agricultural tools ( or at least, everyday agricultural tools ), they just appear to "fancy ".

Regards
Roy