Samoan question

Billman · 18th May 2011, 05:43 PM

Chicken or egg??? Which came first.....

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ia/1928.59.21/ or http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1899.62.718/

PRM state: " Since there both steel and wooden machetes and cutlasses elsewhere in western Polynesia during the 19th century, it has been suggested that there were not enough steel billhook blades to supply demand, so copies were carved out of wood. There is on display in the Museum a fine example of one such wooden nifo’oti."

The steel example is late 19th century, by Joseph Beal of Sheffield - curious it is not an English billhook shape... and I have never seen another similar blade, nor even a billhook by them. Was it made for export to Europe or as trade goods for use elsewhere in the world... It seems of exceptional quality for trade goods, and I would expect to have seen others if it was made as such.... Or was it fashioned by a local blacksmith from a cut down naval cutlass to resemble the local wooden weaponry.... (Assuming that after the introduction of colonial rule, the European's would have also introduced iron working techiques, and supplied bar stock as required)

Note the only J Beal I can trace was a cutler, not an edge tool maker - a cut-throat razor stamped J&J Beal can be found at: http://straightrazorplace.com/razors...lp-please.html - it is possible they made trade goods, but more likely that they made naval cutlasses or officers' swords (c.f. Wilkinson Sword do today)

Updated: they made Ashanti Slavers swords, a form of cutlass: http://faganarms.com/weapons_arms_ar...l/weapons.aspx so it is possible they made other weaponry... Update 2: Yes they did: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/printt...p?t=7034&pp=40 as well as pocket knives... and Machetes: http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/a08_12511300.asp

18th May 2011, 05:43 PM	#1
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Chicken or egg??? Which came first..... http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ia/1928.59.21/ or http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1899.62.718/ PRM state: " Since there both steel and wooden machetes and cutlasses elsewhere in western Polynesia during the 19th century, it has been suggested that there were not enough steel billhook blades to supply demand, so copies were carved out of wood. There is on display in the Museum a fine example of one such wooden nifo’oti." The steel example is late 19th century, by Joseph Beal of Sheffield - curious it is not an English billhook shape... and I have never seen another similar blade, nor even a billhook by them. Was it made for export to Europe or as trade goods for use elsewhere in the world... It seems of exceptional quality for trade goods, and I would expect to have seen others if it was made as such.... Or was it fashioned by a local blacksmith from a cut down naval cutlass to resemble the local wooden weaponry.... (Assuming that after the introduction of colonial rule, the European's would have also introduced iron working techiques, and supplied bar stock as required) Note the only J Beal I can trace was a cutler, not an edge tool maker - a cut-throat razor stamped J&J Beal can be found at: http://straightrazorplace.com/razors...lp-please.html - it is possible they made trade goods, but more likely that they made naval cutlasses or officers' swords (c.f. Wilkinson Sword do today) Updated: they made Ashanti Slavers swords, a form of cutlass: http://faganarms.com/weapons_arms_ar...l/weapons.aspx so it is possible they made other weaponry... Update 2: Yes they did: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/printt...p?t=7034&pp=40 as well as pocket knives... and Machetes: http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/a08_12511300.asp Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 18th May 2011 at 05:59 PM.