Keris Handle / Hilts Appreciation

David · 29th April 2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasjid

Hi again Detlef,

All my hilts already have their own sheats, I just want to know the general preference which type of wood material is the best according to keris owner.

rasjid

This is understood Rasjid, but i think that Detlef raises a good point. The hilt must work as an ensemble with the wrongko so the type of wood preferable must be at least partially determined by the wood of the wrongko. I think that like the blade itself, every hilt is going to have it's own character which may well be determined by many other factors other than the type of wood used. That character must also work with the blade as well as the sheath.
When i look at this type of planar hilt i generally first look for good carving and execution. I appreciate a deep, well cut cecekan, especially when parts of the carving contain pierced through areas. I love chatoyant (nginden) woods, but it wouldn't necessarily be the determining factor for choosing the ukiran. The next hilt, for instance, might have a more interesting grain ('puser' or otherwise) or i might prefer the coloring. I think that there are just too many factors involved to simplify how any particular person would choose from a group of equally carved hilts.

A. G. Maisey · 30th April 2011, 12:03 AM

Rasjid, if we are to only consider the material, my choice would invariably be for the nginden grain.

Always.

However, and this is the point I was trying to make in my first post, if we are to consider the entire hilt, then we need to establish the parameters of quality in this type of hilt:- a hilt can be very well carved and finished, but when considered from a knowledgeable Javanese point of view, it might be a total failure.

Detlef and David have raised the question of the hilt as a part of an ensemble, and although I understand that this question is not relevant to your objective, it is something that perhaps could be considered.

There is yet another consideration, and that is the age, rank, character and body form of the person who will wear the keris, but again, this has nothing at all to do with your original question.

So --- if we just limit this to material:- gimme the nginden.

rasjid · 30th April 2011, 06:35 AM

Yes David, the question is asking personal preference about the wood material only where other objects are not relevant (same quality, same age, etc); as Alan said: we limit to the material itself and we are talking Tayuman. This is not a tricky question, just which one you like - there is not right or wrong answer.
I agree with all the discussion in regards keris hilts on the previous post, other than mention by Alan and Detlef, your self, also colour of the hilts correspondent to the worongko colour, the height suitability with gayaman/ladrang or even personal preference by the hilt maker as well as mentioned by Alan.

Years ago, I understand that most Indonesian they prefer and willing to pay high price for the Blue Sapphire with bright stars, sometimes they told us: the brighter the stars the better (which is true if your stone is not more solid colour NOT crystal clear stone). But when you go to the higher level of appreciation, where you use the technology, certified stones, where mostly overseas / international market used than we are surprised that the Crystall clear (see through) with deep blue color are the choice and the best price for international market. If you are talking rubys, it has to be red deep colour (no pinky, no orange colour within the Red ruby color) but crystal clear and of course no clouds, no cracked, no bubble, etc. etc...

May be others can just tell us what is their material preference and if possible some other readers also have the luxury to own or at least seen what's choosen by the King/Prince or who ever in Kraton their choosen material? So we all learn as well?

BluErf · 1st May 2011, 04:40 AM

I love nginden, but increasingly, perhaps with age, I'm beginning to like quieter grains. For a Javanese hilt, this is my preference. Some grains, mature deep colour, warm and steady, deep in thought.

BluErf · 1st May 2011, 04:42 AM

Sorry for the wrong orientation of the hilt.

rasjid · 2nd May 2011, 05:27 PM

Thank you Kai for your comment and additional pictures.

I like the nginden material as well.
Few keris people that I asked, they also like the nginden hilt but the information I've got for kraton pieces (please correct me if I'm wrong - or some one get access with kraton pieces) are plain, shiny material - no nginden, no 'puser', nothing. Just clean, no mark. This is the reason I'm asking for opinion.

As my previous post in regards stones, the deep colour, crystall clear are highly priced. So as Kai mention in his post, quiter grains - deep colour are the choosen material?
Personally I agree about this matter.

Anyone ? opinion?

thanks

A. G. Maisey · 3rd May 2011, 01:25 AM

Rasjid, I feel that perhaps you might need to be a little more specific in respect of "kraton pieces".

Exactly what do you mean?

Many years ago I was fortunate enough to handle a number of keris that belonged to the Surakarta Karaton. Some were Karaton pusakas, some were keris that had been gifted to various members of the royal family, some were keris that were identified as being for future gifts. My memory is that none of these keris had dress that was remarkable in any way, and many of the keris were very, very ordinary from the point of view of art appreciation.

However, I have also seen the some dress keris worn by various members of the Surakarta Karaton heirarchy, and some of these were sufficient to send you blind.On the other hand some others were quite plain.

Different keris dress can be worn for different occasions, and different dress can be deemed suitable for wear by different ranks. Thus "karaton pieces", or "karaton keris" is not really enough to base a comment on.

1st May 2011, 04:40 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I love nginden, but increasingly, perhaps with age, I'm beginning to like quieter grains. For a Javanese hilt, this is my preference. Some grains, mature deep colour, warm and steady, deep in thought. Attached Images

30th April 2011, 12:03 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,876	Rasjid, if we are to only consider the material, my choice would invariably be for the nginden grain. Always. However, and this is the point I was trying to make in my first post, if we are to consider the entire hilt, then we need to establish the parameters of quality in this type of hilt:- a hilt can be very well carved and finished, but when considered from a knowledgeable Javanese point of view, it might be a total failure. Detlef and David have raised the question of the hilt as a part of an ensemble, and although I understand that this question is not relevant to your objective, it is something that perhaps could be considered. There is yet another consideration, and that is the age, rank, character and body form of the person who will wear the keris, but again, this has nothing at all to do with your original question. So --- if we just limit this to material:- gimme the nginden.

30th April 2011, 06:35 AM	#3
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Yes David, the question is asking personal preference about the wood material only where other objects are not relevant (same quality, same age, etc); as Alan said: we limit to the material itself and we are talking Tayuman. This is not a tricky question, just which one you like - there is not right or wrong answer. I agree with all the discussion in regards keris hilts on the previous post, other than mention by Alan and Detlef, your self, also colour of the hilts correspondent to the worongko colour, the height suitability with gayaman/ladrang or even personal preference by the hilt maker as well as mentioned by Alan. Years ago, I understand that most Indonesian they prefer and willing to pay high price for the Blue Sapphire with bright stars, sometimes they told us: the brighter the stars the better (which is true if your stone is not more solid colour NOT crystal clear stone). But when you go to the higher level of appreciation, where you use the technology, certified stones, where mostly overseas / international market used than we are surprised that the Crystall clear (see through) with deep blue color are the choice and the best price for international market. If you are talking rubys, it has to be red deep colour (no pinky, no orange colour within the Red ruby color) but crystal clear and of course no clouds, no cracked, no bubble, etc. etc... May be others can just tell us what is their material preference and if possible some other readers also have the luxury to own or at least seen what's choosen by the King/Prince or who ever in Kraton their choosen material? So we all learn as well?

1st May 2011, 04:42 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Sorry for the wrong orientation of the hilt.

2nd May 2011, 05:27 PM	#6
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Thank you Kai for your comment and additional pictures. I like the nginden material as well. Few keris people that I asked, they also like the nginden hilt but the information I've got for kraton pieces (please correct me if I'm wrong - or some one get access with kraton pieces) are plain, shiny material - no nginden, no 'puser', nothing. Just clean, no mark. This is the reason I'm asking for opinion. As my previous post in regards stones, the deep colour, crystall clear are highly priced. So as Kai mention in his post, quiter grains - deep colour are the choosen material? Personally I agree about this matter. Anyone ? opinion? thanks

3rd May 2011, 01:25 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,876	Rasjid, I feel that perhaps you might need to be a little more specific in respect of "kraton pieces". Exactly what do you mean? Many years ago I was fortunate enough to handle a number of keris that belonged to the Surakarta Karaton. Some were Karaton pusakas, some were keris that had been gifted to various members of the royal family, some were keris that were identified as being for future gifts. My memory is that none of these keris had dress that was remarkable in any way, and many of the keris were very, very ordinary from the point of view of art appreciation. However, I have also seen the some dress keris worn by various members of the Surakarta Karaton heirarchy, and some of these were sufficient to send you blind.On the other hand some others were quite plain. Different keris dress can be worn for different occasions, and different dress can be deemed suitable for wear by different ranks. Thus "karaton pieces", or "karaton keris" is not really enough to base a comment on.