A true American firearm: the Kentucky Long Rifle

fernando · 9th February 2011, 09:06 PM

I have read that in cold (Nordic) countries, target shooters have a different hair trigger setting between summer and winter, to compensate the (triggering) finger stiffness.

Jim McDougall · 9th February 2011, 10:44 PM

Thank you Chris! and it does appear we are in the final stages of this bizarre winter blast to the southern plains, the powerful winds have kept chill factors at zero to single digits steadily.....I can totally relate to Nando's note about adjustments and stiffness in cold!!!

I have hardly ever handled firearms, so cant add much to the comments you guys have added in that regard. However once years ago, while in the remote mountain areas in Arkansas, I did get the chance to fire one of these flintlock rifles. Here I was, the most rank novice ever, yet despite being the farthest from a marksman imaginable....the rifle hit its target perfectly!!!
What an experience!!

Zwielicht · 10th February 2011, 05:31 AM

Wonderful thing! And quite nice condition.

Lee · 10th February 2011, 10:02 AM

Congratulations, espada, this appears to be a very nice southern long rifle! I must say that I like the simpler ones like this without too much in the way of added 'frills,' but with fine quality of the core components and construction.

I briefly collected American long rifles a couple of decades ago and I do continue to enjoy them.

When I got my new camera last fall I took down another 'late' example that hangs over my fireplace (a relatively 'modern' display position, I am told - as iconic as horned helmets on Vikings, but also not very likely where these rifles were actually kept 'in their day') while testing the camera out. I soon lost mild cloudy days and my driveway studio is now a frigid snow canyon. I posted those pictures on another forum specializing in this area. It was interesting to work out a hypothesis about who had actually made this rifle as my reference books are contradictory and confused about several riflesmiths named 'Christian Beck,' but I believe (and I know there are those better informed than I who disagree that the man existed) that this relatively late example is the work of the son of one of the most celebrated makers, J. P. Beck.

Discussions of American long rifles are most welcome here, but I would recommend members interested in the subject also peruse the American Longrifles forum.

laEspadaAncha · 10th February 2011, 05:54 PM

Hello Lee, and thank you, both for the compliments and for the link to your own exploratory journey pertaining to your own example of this iconic firearm, which I see took place just a couple months ago. I immensely enjoyed reading the feedback and input regarding your (C.? J.P.?) Beck rifle. Would you mind if I post those pictures here in this thread?

Until now I was unaware of the existence of the ALR forum (early firearms do not command my interest to the same degree as edged weapons), and I'm appreciative of the tip, one definitely worth pursuing.

One bit of interesting information regarding the gunsmith responsible for the manufacture of my own example: Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century...

*****

Zwielicht, thank you, and it is indeed in nice condition, lacking any of the damage commonly found where such rifles were most susceptible to breakage.

Jim, my friend, the next time you're westward bound, at your request we will remedy that lack of exposure! Though I am somewhat confused, as I though in the Lone Star State, it was mandatory (state law, even?) that all Texans shoot something at least once a month?

Nando, such customs of variable trigger pulls as you describe make perfect sense, though personally, I would never want a trigger set to such a light pull as I described on the Plains rifle, as some tactile feedback is IMO important for the timing of a shot where accuracy and precision are at a premium.

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2011, 09:14 PM

Hi Chris,
LOL! Yup, in Texas pretty much everybody has a gun, or many, but not being 'officially' Texan, I think I fall in the exceptions category. Since my status as a gypsy rover pretty much prevails mostly, I'd have to say Im probably more Californio than anything else

When the caravan gets west I'll sure take you up on that!
Just wanted to say I really like your style Chris, not only do you take the time to acknowledge the posts and comments of others, but you do so personally, a most refreshing courtesy. Thank you.

All the best,
Jim

laEspadaAncha · 11th February 2011, 02:46 AM

Thank you Jim - your kind words are warmly appreciated. And yes, my friend, you are most definitely a fellow Californio, but when in Rome, eh?

Lee · 11th February 2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century.

I have seen these old rifling rigs in museums and I am always somewhat overwhelmed when I consider the skill and labor that went into making one of the barrels, let alone the entire rifle (even though locks were usually bought from a specialist).

My first long rifle was fairly plain, like yours lacking a patchbox but with a well proportioned and crafted tiger maple stock. Enthusiasts chided me - to my horror - that if they had it they would promptly redress that deficiency. It had been flint and was converted and then reconverted with some overly worn parts. But, just as North Carolina guns are scarce, this one turned out to be from a maker who had migrated from PA to the Hudson Valley region of New York just before the Revolution and so it too is a bit uncommon. I will present it once I have my photo studio back and manage to dig it out from the back of the armoury.

Espada, if you will allow me a couple of days, I will dig out the originals of the Christian Beck rifle pictures. The ALR forum software downsizes the images and so the versions I retain are a little sharper. I enjoyed that bit of detective work and I am convinced that there are at least four blood-related Christian Becks that were making rifles. The eldest Christian Beck had a son also named Christian Beck, but that son apprenticed under a different maker and worked in a different, though very plastic style. I cannot imagine a man as proficient as he in engraving giving all of that skill up to place a single line of rocker engraving! Despite documentation deficiencies, the rifle over my mantle must have been made by a cousin of the eldest Christian Beck as it has features more in common with the eldest Christian Beck and his famed brother J.P. Beck, but in a rifle clearly a generation later than these golden age masters. But there is much more research to be done to prove or disprove this observation.

laEspadaAncha · 12th February 2011, 04:17 AM

Hi Lee,

I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread.

Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector.

I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!?

I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community.

*****

Mark - Thank you...

I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

10th February 2011, 10:02 AM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	I like these too! Congratulations, espada, this appears to be a very nice southern long rifle! I must say that I like the simpler ones like this without too much in the way of added 'frills,' but with fine quality of the core components and construction. I briefly collected American long rifles a couple of decades ago and I do continue to enjoy them. When I got my new camera last fall I took down another 'late' example that hangs over my fireplace (a relatively 'modern' display position, I am told - as iconic as horned helmets on Vikings, but also not very likely where these rifles were actually kept 'in their day') while testing the camera out. I soon lost mild cloudy days and my driveway studio is now a frigid snow canyon. I posted those pictures on another forum specializing in this area. It was interesting to work out a hypothesis about who had actually made this rifle as my reference books are contradictory and confused about several riflesmiths named 'Christian Beck,' but I believe (and I know there are those better informed than I who disagree that the man existed) that this relatively late example is the work of the son of one of the most celebrated makers, J. P. Beck. Discussions of American long rifles are most welcome here, but I would recommend members interested in the subject also peruse the American Longrifles forum.

9th February 2011, 09:06 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I have read that in cold (Nordic) countries, target shooters have a different hair trigger setting between summer and winter, to compensate the (triggering) finger stiffness.

9th February 2011, 10:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Thank you Chris! and it does appear we are in the final stages of this bizarre winter blast to the southern plains, the powerful winds have kept chill factors at zero to single digits steadily.....I can totally relate to Nando's note about adjustments and stiffness in cold!!! I have hardly ever handled firearms, so cant add much to the comments you guys have added in that regard. However once years ago, while in the remote mountain areas in Arkansas, I did get the chance to fire one of these flintlock rifles. Here I was, the most rank novice ever, yet despite being the farthest from a marksman imaginable....the rifle hit its target perfectly!!! What an experience!!

10th February 2011, 05:31 AM	#3
Zwielicht Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	Wonderful thing! And quite nice condition.

10th February 2011, 05:54 PM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Lee, and thank you, both for the compliments and for the link to your own exploratory journey pertaining to your own example of this iconic firearm, which I see took place just a couple months ago. I immensely enjoyed reading the feedback and input regarding your (C.? J.P.?) Beck rifle. Would you mind if I post those pictures here in this thread? Until now I was unaware of the existence of the ALR forum (early firearms do not command my interest to the same degree as edged weapons), and I'm appreciative of the tip, one definitely worth pursuing. One bit of interesting information regarding the gunsmith responsible for the manufacture of my own example: Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century... *** Zwielicht, thank you, and it is indeed in nice condition, lacking any of the damage commonly found where such rifles were most susceptible to breakage. Jim*, my friend, the next time you're westward bound, at your request we will remedy that lack of exposure! Though I am somewhat confused, as I though in the Lone Star State, it was mandatory (state law, even?) that all Texans shoot something* at least once a month? Nando, such customs of variable trigger pulls as you describe make perfect sense, though personally, I would never want a trigger set to such a light pull as I described on the Plains rifle, as some tactile feedback is IMO important for the timing of a shot where accuracy and precision are at a premium.

10th February 2011, 09:14 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Hi Chris, LOL! Yup, in Texas pretty much everybody has a gun, or many, but not being 'officially' Texan, I think I fall in the exceptions category. Since my status as a gypsy rover pretty much prevails mostly, I'd have to say Im probably more Californio than anything else When the caravan gets west I'll sure take you up on that! Just wanted to say I really like your style Chris, not only do you take the time to acknowledge the posts and comments of others, but you do so personally, a most refreshing courtesy. Thank you. All the best, Jim

11th February 2011, 02:46 AM	#7
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thank you Jim - your kind words are warmly appreciated. And yes, my friend, you are most definitely a fellow Californio, but when in Rome, eh?

12th February 2011, 04:17 AM	#9
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Lee, I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread. Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector. I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!? I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community. *** Mark** - Thank you... I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.