pirate swords

Jenny Ida · 8th December 2010, 04:09 AM

Hi, I'm interested in the pirates of South East Asia, and their arms. I'm no good with photos, but there are a couple of very interesting (former) ebay items I find intriquing in this regard, as classic wide-tipped swords. The two seem to form parts of a continuum of some sort. There was another, veeeeery interesting, but it's price is crazy-high and they keep relisting it, so we can't discuss it as such, but it has an integral hook at the base of the blade; for parrying?
The first of the ended items is #190462987720 This sword really appeals to me. A more northern PI piece, with a clipped tip and a fantastical brass guard.
The second is # 290506873261 a seemingly very thick though short chisel-bevelled Visayan sword with a cool pommel (is there no end to the variety in Visayan pommels?) that I could barely bring myself to not bid on. Went for a song

respect and jealousy, yo

Emanuel · 8th December 2010, 02:48 PM

Hi Jenny,

Welcome to the forum. We've covered the use of SEA weapons in piratery in the past. Search the forum for pirates and some very interesting discussions will come up.

The examples you list do not seem very old, not exactly representative of the good stuff. The sword with a hook at the tip is called a kampilan, used by the Moro people of the southern Philippines island of Mindanao. many threads on those.
Also search for talibon, tenegre, mandau, kris...there is lots to look at here

Emanuel

Atlantia · 8th December 2010, 06:12 PM

Welcome Jenny. I'm sure you'll enjoy being here.
best
Gene

laEspadaAncha · 8th December 2010, 06:27 PM

Welcome Jenny... I would say you definitely found the right place! DNA tests reveal this board is 40% Morophile.

Given your interest in SE Asian pirates, you might find Swish of the Kris to be a fascinating read. In it, author Vic Hurley discusses at length the piratical life of the Moros. While the book may be nearly impossible to locate in hardcopy, it is available online to read for free.

David · 8th December 2010, 07:15 PM

Avast ye Jenny, and you may find more than a few pirates lurking these latitudes as well.

The second blade you show doesn't look all that pirate worthy to me. You might also want to do a search on Sea Dayaks for some interesting nautical blades.

Robert · 8th December 2010, 09:36 PM

Hello Jenny, and welcome to the forum. I'm sure that you will find some very interesting items on here that will fit the bill for what you are looking for.

Robert

Jenny Ida · 8th December 2010, 11:29 PM

Thanks, BTW, the hook is at the base of the blade

a bit odder

kronckew · 9th December 2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenny Ida

Thanks, BTW, the hook is at the base of the blade

a bit odder

have a look in the forum's reference library, one of the items is HERE, which shows the sea dyak parangs part way down the page, the 'hook' near the grip is a krowit, used to catch an opponent's blade and protect the hand.

Jenny Ida · 10th December 2010, 11:35 PM

super cool! Thanks!

Jenny Ida · 5th January 2011, 06:29 PM

What I was particularly interested in concerning the swords I initially mentioned was their overall shape and membership in a broadly definable class of Oceanic SEA Asian weapons, often generallized as parang nabur, with narrow thickened bases and wide rounded slashing tips. To me the type is epitomized (and perhaps somewhat originated) by the bat-head-pommeled type. This seems a native sword type to me, with confusion arising when some examples take on more Western/Islamic trappings, like knucklebows or dropped yelmans.
Particularly interesting here is the contrast and in this context unusuallness of the Visayan one, as the type is usually centrally bevelled, but the chisel bevel (in general, not specifically on parangs of this type) seems to be an ancient form for the region, and notable for its early and continued use in Japan.

Jenny Ida · 5th January 2011, 06:34 PM

What I was particularly interested in concerning the swords I initially mentioned was their overall shape and membership in a broadly definable class of Oceanic SEA Asian weapons, often generallized as parang nabur, with narrow thickened bases and wide rounded slashing tips. To me the type is epitomized (and perhaps somewhat originated) by the bat-head-pommeled type. This seems a native sword type to me, with confusion arising when some examples take on more Western/Islamic trappings, like knucklebows or dropped yelmans.
Particularly interesting here is the contrast and in this context unusuallness of the Visayan one, as the type is usually centrally bevelled, but the chisel bevel (in general, not specifically on parangs of this type) seems to be an ancient form for the region, and notable for its early and continued use in Japan.

VVV · 8th January 2011, 12:14 PM

The so called "Parang Nabur", invented by the late Stone when misreading a book in his library, is not a traditional pirate sword but a prestige sword of the coastal Malays of SE Borneo and is also found as a court sword among Peninsular Malays.
The real Parang Nabur/Nyabor however was a traditional sword of the Iban, aka Sea Dayaks, who went on pirate raids together with the Kampilan- and Kris-armed Illanum Moros. Here is what the real Parang Nabur looks like.
You can find much more info about this in the forum archives. The coastal Malay sabre-sword is usually labelled a Beladah Belabang in the region it was used.

Michael

8th January 2011, 12:14 PM	#12
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	The so called "Parang Nabur", invented by the late Stone when misreading a book in his library, is not a traditional pirate sword but a prestige sword of the coastal Malays of SE Borneo and is also found as a court sword among Peninsular Malays. The real Parang Nabur/Nyabor however was a traditional sword of the Iban, aka Sea Dayaks, who went on pirate raids together with the Kampilan- and Kris-armed Illanum Moros. Here is what the real Parang Nabur looks like. You can find much more info about this in the forum archives. The coastal Malay sabre-sword is usually labelled a Beladah Belabang in the region it was used. Michael Attached Images

8th December 2010, 04:09 AM	#1
Jenny Ida Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 12	pirate swords Hi, I'm interested in the pirates of South East Asia, and their arms. I'm no good with photos, but there are a couple of very interesting (former) ebay items I find intriquing in this regard, as classic wide-tipped swords. The two seem to form parts of a continuum of some sort. There was another, veeeeery interesting, but it's price is crazy-high and they keep relisting it, so we can't discuss it as such, but it has an integral hook at the base of the blade; for parrying? The first of the ended items is #190462987720 This sword really appeals to me. A more northern PI piece, with a clipped tip and a fantastical brass guard. The second is # 290506873261 a seemingly very thick though short chisel-bevelled Visayan sword with a cool pommel (is there no end to the variety in Visayan pommels?) that I could barely bring myself to not bid on. Went for a song respect and jealousy, yo

8th December 2010, 02:48 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Jenny, Welcome to the forum. We've covered the use of SEA weapons in piratery in the past. Search the forum for pirates and some very interesting discussions will come up. The examples you list do not seem very old, not exactly representative of the good stuff. The sword with a hook at the tip is called a kampilan, used by the Moro people of the southern Philippines island of Mindanao. many threads on those. Also search for talibon, tenegre, mandau, kris...there is lots to look at here Emanuel

8th December 2010, 06:12 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Welcome Jenny. I'm sure you'll enjoy being here. best Gene

8th December 2010, 06:27 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Welcome Jenny... I would say you definitely found the right place! DNA tests reveal this board is 40% Morophile. Given your interest in SE Asian pirates, you might find Swish of the Kris to be a fascinating read. In it, author Vic Hurley discusses at length the piratical life of the Moros. While the book may be nearly impossible to locate in hardcopy, it is available online to read for free.

8th December 2010, 07:15 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Avast ye Jenny, and you may find more than a few pirates lurking these latitudes as well. The second blade you show doesn't look all that pirate worthy to me. You might also want to do a search on Sea Dayaks for some interesting nautical blades.

8th December 2010, 09:36 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jenny, and welcome to the forum. I'm sure that you will find some very interesting items on here that will fit the bill for what you are looking for. Robert

8th December 2010, 11:29 PM	#7
Jenny Ida Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 12	Thanks, BTW, the hook is at the base of the blade a bit odder

10th December 2010, 11:35 PM	#9
Jenny Ida Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 12	super cool! Thanks!

5th January 2011, 06:29 PM	#10
Jenny Ida Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 12	What I was particularly interested in concerning the swords I initially mentioned was their overall shape and membership in a broadly definable class of Oceanic SEA Asian weapons, often generallized as parang nabur, with narrow thickened bases and wide rounded slashing tips. To me the type is epitomized (and perhaps somewhat originated) by the bat-head-pommeled type. This seems a native sword type to me, with confusion arising when some examples take on more Western/Islamic trappings, like knucklebows or dropped yelmans. Particularly interesting here is the contrast and in this context unusuallness of the Visayan one, as the type is usually centrally bevelled, but the chisel bevel (in general, not specifically on parangs of this type) seems to be an ancient form for the region, and notable for its early and continued use in Japan.

5th January 2011, 06:34 PM	#11
Jenny Ida Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 12	What I was particularly interested in concerning the swords I initially mentioned was their overall shape and membership in a broadly definable class of Oceanic SEA Asian weapons, often generallized as parang nabur, with narrow thickened bases and wide rounded slashing tips. To me the type is epitomized (and perhaps somewhat originated) by the bat-head-pommeled type. This seems a native sword type to me, with confusion arising when some examples take on more Western/Islamic trappings, like knucklebows or dropped yelmans. Particularly interesting here is the contrast and in this context unusuallness of the Visayan one, as the type is usually centrally bevelled, but the chisel bevel (in general, not specifically on parangs of this type) seems to be an ancient form for the region, and notable for its early and continued use in Japan.