Help requested with identifying some 14th century heraldry

Lee · 9th November 2010, 08:03 PM

Most interesting!

I believe these photos are just a bit clearer. I do apologize for the previous photo quality.

cornelistromp · 9th November 2010, 08:41 PM

Extremely beautiful arsenal sword and also very aesthetic in proportion.
after 1991 classified by Oakeshott as a type XIIA

the squareshaped rounded wheelpommel has been in use from 1300 to 1430.

is there is a Naskh inscription at the reverse side and mark at the tang?

best regards,

Lee · 12th November 2010, 05:02 PM

I agree concerning the fine proportions of this old sword; the juxtaposition of the European and Alexandrian markings in the context of the overall proportions make this one of my personal favorites among the entire group. It is interesting to note, however, that the tip has seen much resharpening over the years, so presumably there was once a more acute and symmetrical point.

Yes, the sword bears an inscription, placed upon both sides of the forte, referring to Sayf al-Din Aristay, thus placing its accession into the arsenal within the first decade of the 15th century.

The flats of the tang are not visible as wooden grips were riveted on, presumably at the time when these swords were mounted in panoplies in the Ottoman trophy hall at St. Irene.

cornelistromp · 12th November 2010, 06:11 PM

yes this type, type XIIa usually has an acute sharp tapered point over the last 5cm.

the amir Aristay, Governor of Alexandria has a bequest period on the know inscripted swords of 1400-1401, this is the year (hijra) 803, this sword is probably approx. 50 years older.

the riveted shells are indeed a replacement done in Alexandria or in the hagia Eirene, all the original European grips cover the 4 sides of the tang as a sandwich.

the majority of the Alexandria swords of this type have a mark stamped at the tang.though it is very interesting, I would not recommend removing the grip.

re: this HUBS with the "v above the Hubs" bequest of the amir Sayf al-Din Aristay. can also be seen on A German sword in Istanbul museum no. 14786
(Ludvik Kalus nr 34) and on an Arsenal sword in the Peter Finer 2005 cataloque.

9th November 2010, 08:03 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 910	Slightly improved [sic] pictures Most interesting! I believe these photos are just a bit clearer. I do apologize for the previous photo quality. Attached Images

12th November 2010, 05:02 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 910	I agree concerning the fine proportions of this old sword; the juxtaposition of the European and Alexandrian markings in the context of the overall proportions make this one of my personal favorites among the entire group. It is interesting to note, however, that the tip has seen much resharpening over the years, so presumably there was once a more acute and symmetrical point. Yes, the sword bears an inscription, placed upon both sides of the forte, referring to Sayf al-Din Aristay, thus placing its accession into the arsenal within the first decade of the 15th century. The flats of the tang are not visible as wooden grips were riveted on, presumably at the time when these swords were mounted in panoplies in the Ottoman trophy hall at St. Irene. Attached Images

12th November 2010, 06:11 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	yes this type, type XIIa usually has an acute sharp tapered point over the last 5cm. the amir Aristay, Governor of Alexandria has a bequest period on the know inscripted swords of 1400-1401, this is the year (hijra) 803, this sword is probably approx. 50 years older. the riveted shells are indeed a replacement done in Alexandria or in the hagia Eirene, all the original European grips cover the 4 sides of the tang as a sandwich. the majority of the Alexandria swords of this type have a mark stamped at the tang.though it is very interesting, I would not recommend removing the grip. re: this HUBS with the "v above the Hubs" bequest of the amir Sayf al-Din Aristay. can also be seen on A German sword in Istanbul museum no. 14786 (Ludvik Kalus nr 34) and on an Arsenal sword in the Peter Finer 2005 cataloque. Attached Images

9th November 2010, 08:41 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Extremely beautiful arsenal sword and also very aesthetic in proportion. after 1991 classified by Oakeshott as a type XIIA the squareshaped rounded wheelpommel has been in use from 1300 to 1430. is there is a Naskh inscription at the reverse side and mark at the tang? best regards,