Swept Hilt Rapier – Urgent help needed?

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

I have the opportunity to purchase this sword but do not know if it is real or a Victorian copy. Our Field is basket hilts and Georgian swords and I do not see a lot of Rapiers and tend to buy early swords only from a well respected source. The provenance of this sword is unknown; any help would be greatly appreciated as I have only till Friday to make a decision to pursue or walk away.

Pictures posted in folder.

Cheers Cathey

[Dmitry]

My $.02 which should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt. I would wager that not only the grip wiring, but the whole grip is a replacement. I may be wrong, but the hilt construction appears unusual, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon close examination, it was discovered that a couple of branches were removed. The condition of the blade does not correspond with the condition of the hilt. Whether these were period alterations, I can't say.

[Dmitry]

This is how this sword may have looked like originally.

[Cathey]

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

I did not suggest that the blade or the hilt were replicas.
Again [in my meager experience] unaltered period examples of this style, without the rear branches, are uncommon.
I guess I was lead astray by the title of this thread - "Urgent Help Needed".
You appear to be quite confident that the sword is right. Please post some better photos of the hilt, once you acquire it!

[fernando]

Hi Cathey,
Let's hope further coments to be posted before Friday !
Taking into account that Dmitry knows a lot about these things ... i know nothing. But i must say that this sword looks unsuspicious to me
If i was offered such piece, i would most probably buy it ... if i had the money
But by no means you should take my impression into a valued factor!

[Cathey]

Hi Dmitry,

no you have not misunderstood me, I always have doubts. The Sword was dropped off for inspection last night and we had to take photos under less than ideal conditions. The more I handle it the more I like the blade which has been mechanically cleaned. I have found this not to be uncommon in swords out of the UK where I suspect this come from; however I question why the hilt did not require the same treatment and wonder if this is not a marriage. In Australia we do not see many rapiers in the flesh and I have been offered this sword previously and walked away. I will see if my Rex can try and take some better pictures today while I am at work weather permitting. Sadly I would love it to be right and hope that I am not talking myself into that position.

Cheers Cathey

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Just an update, we have now had the sword inspected by another collector who is also a specialist in metal work. This gentleman has gone all over the sword with a magnifying glass and advised that in his opinion the sword has been hammered in a forge and has no modern welds or other evidence of modern manufacture. He also adds that it has had no branches removed and is his opinion the blade is the correct fit for this hilt and appears contemporary to the blade. On the basis of this advice I am leaning towards taking a chance on this one.

Cheers Cathey

[cornelistromp]

Hi Cathey,

the Rapier(rapier if >111cm?) looks fine and homogeneous to me.
Blade is OK, lack of counter guard and only chisselwork at the show-side is also know on this type of rapier. Gripbinding is probably a replacement?!?!
however.... Please do have a close look at the pommel and if the decoration of the pommel has been done by the same tools as the the quillon. the reason I do mention it is that the pommel is of an earlier type and you would expect a pommel shape similar/matching to the quillon finals!
(it may be belonging to this piece but it will not surprise me if it is a replacement.)

regards from Holland

[Cathey]

Hi Holland?

Under a microscope the grip wire is extremely finely plated and then woven, which would have been a pain to do originally at any time. The Turks heads fit extremely well, and both wire and Turks heads appear of the same age. If it is a replacement they have certainly gone to a lot of trouble.

The pommel and hilt decoration appear to be contemporary and quite crude really. Then again I doubt this one was made for a lord so perhaps it’s a poor man’s version, made for use rather than decoration which would explain the great balance the sword has in the hand.

Cheers Cathey