New Moro kris

Henk · 8th October 2010, 09:03 PM

Picked this one up yesterday. At first sight a nice one, but what do i know about these krisses. There are a lot of members with more knowledge than yours truley. I would like to hear your comments.

The hilt has an ivory end butt. The wood has a nice grain. Silver bands. Between these bands woven rattan and above the first band towards the blade a band with woven copper. The hilt is unremoveable attached to the blade. The blade has a very faint drawing on both sides and on the tip a copper dot. The scabbard is completely covered with cloth wich is lacquered. one band on the lower part of the scabbard. The end tip is missing.

Should i clean this one or keep it the way it is? If i should clean it, how? How would the end tip have looked?

Sajen · 8th October 2010, 09:17 PM

Hello Henk,

I am also still learning about this items so I can't answer your questions but want to say that I like this kris very much, congrats!

Regards,

Detlef

Henk · 8th October 2010, 11:59 PM

Thanks Detlef, at first sight it looks good.

Battara · 9th October 2010, 03:43 AM

Looks like a Maguindanao kris, perhaps end of 19c. Nice work. The ron do have been worn off by the looks of things. Etch the blade and see what happens. Nice pice.

Nathaniel · 9th October 2010, 04:12 AM

Hmmm...that is interesting....the copper dot inlaid at the tip...is that something not uncommon among the Moro Kris? I've seen that in Burmese/Thai/Lao swords...interesting.

Battara · 9th October 2010, 06:08 PM

Some Moro kris and kampilan have a copper or silver dot or dots on the blades.

Maurice · 9th October 2010, 08:50 PM

Hello Henk,

Congrats with this beautifull kris.
It has a lot of handsome details, such as the ivory endcap, the interesting handle with the okir design in combination with the copperwire and ratan binding and also the dot in the blade is very nice.

What puzzles me a bit is the strange place of the clamp.
Is it loose and has it a tolerance, because it is situated so in the middle under the handle?
I have some images found of krisses which had the clamp also in this place, but only very few. Most of them have the clamp more "next" to the handle, instead of "under" the handle...

Maurice

David · 9th October 2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

What puzzles me a bit is the strange place of the clamp.
Is it loose and has it a tolerance, because it is situated so in the middle under the handle?

I agree that this is a simple, but handsome blade. But it also seems obvious to me that this is not the original hilt and if you look closely at the photos you can see where the original clamp was situated.
Perhaps it's just old age, but i have become very wary about lots of Moro dress, even when it looks old. So i wonder if this hilt isn't a more recent creation than the rest of the ensemble. It certainly doesn't seem to have experienced the same wear as the blade and sheath.

Nathaniel · 9th October 2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Some Moro kris and kampilan have a copper or silver dot or dots on the blades.

Interesting, I wonder about the origin of the inlaid dot(s)?? You see the Chinese Jians with inlaid brass dots too.

Sajen · 9th October 2010, 10:04 PM

I have had a look to my pictures of Moro kris with the same style of "sampir" (cross-piece) and all have had a straight and flat end at the gandar.
So maybe there have been a end cap from wood or horn.

Henk · 10th October 2010, 07:04 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments.
The clamp is tight on the blade and has no tolerance. I already looked if i could remove the hilt with the clamp to clean the blade entirely.
The hilt and the clamp are attached to the blade where the hilt is filled with something i cann't define. But the filling is old and certainly not recently done.

David, If you mean that the clamp should be situated more to the right of the blade, i can see that there is room to place the clamp. But i don't see spurs of a previous clamp on the blade which is very good visible on other krisses where the clamp was replaced.

Maurice, as i mentioned above the clamp is tight on the blade. And yes mostly the clamp is next to the hilt. But i'm not an expert on these moro krisses. I bought it from some blurry pics for a good price and was pleasantly surprised when i opened the box when it arrived.

Battara · 10th October 2010, 06:13 PM

I have seen clamps like this on several Moro kris. Not unheard of.

Rick · 10th October 2010, 07:29 PM

When the clamp is placed this way the strap that holds it usually runs up inside the handle, snug to the tang .

I've seen this before also .

kai · 10th October 2010, 07:50 PM

Hello Jose and Rick,

Yes, I've also seen weird clamp positions but in situations like this I often wasn't convinced that this really was the original configuration rather than a later replacement or, at best, field repair. Could you please share pics of examples?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 10th October 2010, 07:55 PM

Congrats, Henk - certainly an interesting Moro kris!

How long is the blade?

Could you please post a pic of the gangya area taken from directly above?

Have you tested the parts for being true silver? (There seems to be some variation in color and while the twisted wire does look like it could well be silver, I'm less convinced regarding the engraved rings, for example...)

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 10th October 2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Congrats, Detlef - certainly an interesting Moro kris!

How long is the blade?

Could you please post a pic of the gangya area taken from directly above?

Have you tested the parts for being true silver? (There seems to be some variation in color and while the twisted wire does look like it could well be silver, I'm less convinced regarding the engraved rings, for example...)

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

the congrats have to be addressed to Henk!

Best,

Detlef

kai · 10th October 2010, 08:23 PM

Sorry, Henk!

Thanks, Detlef! Yes, you've already had your share of luck...

Henk · 10th October 2010, 09:02 PM

Hello Kai,

No problem at all.

The length of the blade is 54 cm or 21,25 inch without the hilt.

About the silver parts, i used a jewelers silvercleaning cloth for a quick polish. I didn't clean it properly yet. That is why you see some colordifferences, wich is also due to the flashlight.

I will post a picture of the gangya area as you asked me later this week.

Regards, Henk

Henk · 15th October 2010, 08:29 PM

Kai,

It took some time, but here they are. I hope this is what you mean.

Rick · 15th October 2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Jose and Rick,

Yes, I've also seen weird clamp positions but in situations like this I often wasn't convinced that this really was the original configuration rather than a later replacement or, at best, field repair. Could you please share pics of examples?

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

In fact this method of clamp mounting points toward a re-hilting IMO .

Rather than pictures, just take my word on it .

Rick

8th October 2010, 09:03 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	New Moro kris Picked this one up yesterday. At first sight a nice one, but what do i know about these krisses. There are a lot of members with more knowledge than yours truley. I would like to hear your comments. The hilt has an ivory end butt. The wood has a nice grain. Silver bands. Between these bands woven rattan and above the first band towards the blade a band with woven copper. The hilt is unremoveable attached to the blade. The blade has a very faint drawing on both sides and on the tip a copper dot. The scabbard is completely covered with cloth wich is lacquered. one band on the lower part of the scabbard. The end tip is missing. Should i clean this one or keep it the way it is? If i should clean it, how? How would the end tip have looked? Attached Images

10th October 2010, 07:55 PM	#15
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, Henk - certainly an interesting Moro kris! How long is the blade? Could you please post a pic of the gangya area taken from directly above? Have you tested the parts for being true silver? (There seems to be some variation in color and while the twisted wire does look like it could well be silver, I'm less convinced regarding the engraved rings, for example...) Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 10th October 2010 at 08:26 PM. Reason: correcting addressee

15th October 2010, 08:29 PM	#19
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Kai, It took some time, but here they are. I hope this is what you mean. Attached Images

8th October 2010, 09:17 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hello Henk, I am also still learning about this items so I can't answer your questions but want to say that I like this kris very much, congrats! Regards, Detlef

8th October 2010, 11:59 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Thanks Detlef, at first sight it looks good.

9th October 2010, 03:43 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Looks like a Maguindanao kris, perhaps end of 19c. Nice work. The ron do have been worn off by the looks of things. Etch the blade and see what happens. Nice pice.

9th October 2010, 04:12 AM	#5
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Hmmm...that is interesting....the copper dot inlaid at the tip...is that something not uncommon among the Moro Kris? I've seen that in Burmese/Thai/Lao swords...interesting.

9th October 2010, 06:08 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Some Moro kris and kampilan have a copper or silver dot or dots on the blades.

9th October 2010, 08:50 PM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,342	Hello Henk, Congrats with this beautifull kris. It has a lot of handsome details, such as the ivory endcap, the interesting handle with the okir design in combination with the copperwire and ratan binding and also the dot in the blade is very nice. What puzzles me a bit is the strange place of the clamp. Is it loose and has it a tolerance, because it is situated so in the middle under the handle? I have some images found of krisses which had the clamp also in this place, but only very few. Most of them have the clamp more "next" to the handle, instead of "under" the handle... Maurice

9th October 2010, 10:04 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	I have had a look to my pictures of Moro kris with the same style of "sampir" (cross-piece) and all have had a straight and flat end at the gandar. So maybe there have been a end cap from wood or horn.

10th October 2010, 07:04 AM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Gentlemen, Thank you for your comments. The clamp is tight on the blade and has no tolerance. I already looked if i could remove the hilt with the clamp to clean the blade entirely. The hilt and the clamp are attached to the blade where the hilt is filled with something i cann't define. But the filling is old and certainly not recently done. David, If you mean that the clamp should be situated more to the right of the blade, i can see that there is room to place the clamp. But i don't see spurs of a previous clamp on the blade which is very good visible on other krisses where the clamp was replaced. Maurice, as i mentioned above the clamp is tight on the blade. And yes mostly the clamp is next to the hilt. But i'm not an expert on these moro krisses. I bought it from some blurry pics for a good price and was pleasantly surprised when i opened the box when it arrived.

10th October 2010, 06:13 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I have seen clamps like this on several Moro kris. Not unheard of.

10th October 2010, 07:29 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	When the clamp is placed this way the strap that holds it usually runs up inside the handle, snug to the tang . I've seen this before also .

10th October 2010, 07:50 PM	#14
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Jose and Rick, Yes, I've also seen weird clamp positions but in situations like this I often wasn't convinced that this really was the original configuration rather than a later replacement or, at best, field repair. Could you please share pics of examples? Regards, Kai

10th October 2010, 08:23 PM	#17
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Sorry, Henk! Thanks, Detlef! Yes, you've already had your share of luck...

10th October 2010, 09:02 PM	#18
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hello Kai, No problem at all. The length of the blade is 54 cm or 21,25 inch without the hilt. About the silver parts, i used a jewelers silvercleaning cloth for a quick polish. I didn't clean it properly yet. That is why you see some colordifferences, wich is also due to the flashlight. I will post a picture of the gangya area as you asked me later this week. Regards, Henk