Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 24th September 2010, 04:28 PM   #1
Lee
EAAF Staff
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 914
Wink Just for kicks: Compare this with a mid to late Viking Age (Carolingian) winged spear

This protobudiak was my very first 'Malaysian' spear. I bought it in a small (now sadly perished) private arms and armour museum in Kutztown, Pennsylvania in the late 1990s. I collected it as a superb example of pattern-welding for a small group of comparative ethnographic examples I was building. It was so out of place in the museum's small coop shop and it cost me less than a hundred dollars. I still delight in my memory of finding it. I have over the years mislaid that delicate silver ferrule cylinder on more than one occasion, but shall be careful not to again lose it, and I indeed look forward to seeing it put back together again.

So, ironically, the protobudiak gets to be the reference point as I pull something from the opposite side of the globe and a millennium further back out of the armoury to compare with it, namely a mid to late Viking Age (Carolingian) winged spearhead. The big, obvious differences are that the winged spearhead is socketed (with two small protrusions or 'wings' arising from the socket) and the tanged protobudiak has more pronounced fullering. In functional impact, however, these two spearheads are nearly identical in length (protobudiak 355 mm; winged spearhead 345 mm - measuring from where each blade begins to expand out from neck to the tip) and in mass (protobudiak as pictured including partial mounts and epoxy 469 grams; winged spearhead 409 grams with some losses from the socket on the opposite side).
Attached Images
  
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2010, 01:08 AM   #2
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default Okay Then

If we are going to follow the thought train that this is an early Budiak; I think I might be able to show a transitional design with elements of both old and new .

Left hand spear in post 2, fifth picture down .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12569
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 02:03 PM   #3
Lee
EAAF Staff
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 914
Thumbs up Budiak variations - is it time or geography or both.

Thanks Rick, I think that is about all one could hope for in terms of a missing link ... now is it time or geography or both.

I had missed that detail in the wealth of that museum photo tour, but worse I had totally missed Bill M's fabulous examples resurrected in Freebooter's thread - just look at the combination of features in the first pictured spear as well as the intact silver ferrule. Gorgeous!

Anyway, my protobudiak is about to head out the door for restoration and preparatory to this I have dissolved away the failed epoxy repair and revealed the end of the tang and fractured remain of the pole.

And just a trace of fall foliage reflected in the silver.
Attached Images
  
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 10:45 PM   #4
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,226
Default

Glad you were able to get that thing off. Now it can be worked on easier.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2010, 04:43 AM   #5
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default

Hi everyone,

Here is a Moro or Bagobo spear with similar lozenge flaring at the base. The blade is pattern-welded but not twist-core. I find the braided wire work quite interesting.

Emanuel
Attached Images
       
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2010, 04:08 PM   #6
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Smile

The head seems almost identical to the left one shown in post #2 .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2010, 01:41 AM   #7
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default

Yup, that's why I posted it . If I followed the discussion correctly, is there budding consensus that this is an early form of budiak?
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2019, 12:03 AM   #8
vilhelmsson
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
So, ironically, the protobudiak gets to be the reference point as I pull something from the opposite side of the globe and a millennium further back out of the armoury to compare with it, namely a mid to late Viking Age (Carolingian) winged spearhead. The big, obvious differences are that the winged spearhead is socketed (with two small protrusions or 'wings' arising from the socket) and the tanged protobudiak has more pronounced fullering. In functional impact, however, these two spearheads are nearly identical in length (protobudiak 355 mm; winged spearhead 345 mm - measuring from where each blade begins to expand out from neck to the tip) and in mass (protobudiak as pictured including partial mounts and epoxy 469 grams; winged spearhead 409 grams with some losses from the socket on the opposite side).
I recently received delivery of a similar Type D Viking Age spearhead. I was eager to see if it had pattern welding. The core seems to be pattern-welded, though it could also be some clever texturing, but it is consistent on both sides of the spear (see the contrasty, filtered images).

But when I held it in my hand, I was similarly struck by its similarities to a budiak spearhead that I had purchased earlier in the year. Their silhouettes are almost identical (from neck to tip), and they share the aesthetic of core pattern-welding. I haven't weighed them, but they have a similar heft. It's fascinating that cultures a world and a millennium apart made such similar design decisions on their spears.

(I promise to try to get better at taking pictures of my weapons...)
Attached Images
        
vilhelmsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2019, 12:55 AM   #9
Lee
EAAF Staff
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 914
Thumbs up Nice, very nice!

Two very, very nice spearheads.

The early winged one appears to definitely have one band of pattern-welding. If the meandering side to side is the 'mirror image' on the back side, then this likely results from one twisted rod also forming a core, and I suspect this is the case as the plane of the surface appears to be intersecting at the periphery of a twisted rod. I include an image from Lorange (1889) showing some similar patterns.

The budiak appears to have two bands well controlled and corresponding to the mirrored chiseled out panels either side of the midrib. Here the intersection is much deeper, even to mid rod. The pattern-welded budiaks that I have been fortunate enough to acquire are either like the one at the head of this thread or have a single relatively flat central panel without the midrib.

The similarity in shape and size of these spearheads coming from such different origins does suggest these must be well proven and effective proportions.
Attached Images
 
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.