Pattern-welded (twist core) Budiak

[Rick]

Could one imagine a base under that silver like the left hand spear shown ?

No one ever really nailed this one down to a particular tribe IIRC .
The ferrule style is quite different from yours .

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Rick

Could one imagine a base under that silver like the left hand spear shown ?

No one ever really nailed this one down to a particular tribe IIRC .
The ferrule style is quite different from yours .

Hello Rick,

I only can post this image of these spears in a spanish museum.
Unfortunately I have no description of the spears, but maybe a spanish collector can tell more about the tags or what they are saying in the museum....
I only have this image!
Depicted are several spears, some with very plain silver ferrule (but with other bands/rings like yours).
Especially the second one of the left....the base looks very similar to me in comparison with yours, although your blade is a bit slimmer.

Maurice

[Battara]

Interesting form of budiak. Not seen this length of blade before. Love the twistcore.

[Rick]

Thank you Maurice .

I don't see any that are similar; I think the one you mention goes to round at the base .
I see no rings on the ferrules that match .

Anyway, if the base of Lee's example is angular this might be something to work with ...... or just coincidence .

I see a resemblance :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11670

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Rick

Thank you Maurice .

I don't see any that are similar; I think the one you mention goes to round at the base .
I see no rings on the ferrules that match .

Anyway, if the base of Lee's example is angular this might be something to work with ...... or just coincidence .

I see a resemblance :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11670

Rick, sorry I don't see your statement.
If I give it a close look, the one I mentioned indeed is round and yours is square.
But just above the round base and up to the tip I am surely see some similarities.
Indeed the rings on your ferrule look very beautifull and different, as I mentioned before, and I never have seen them like this on budiaks nor Borneo spears. I have seen several Borneo spears with provenance which had silver ferrules and silver rings, but all different as yours, which look very finely made.

It looks like Lee's budiak's base is also square...

[Rick]

Hi Maurice .
Could this be a more archaic form of Moro spear ?
Or a distinctly Sulu style ?

I rarely see these compared to the examples I show .

Rick

[Lee]

Thank you all...

Rick, the base is much like the one you picture on the left, but a little less robust. As to both of your examples - drool...nice...drool...

Maurice, I have scanned in one of the plates from Krieger (1926) below and have labeled the spears with the tribal associations given in the text. Numbers 8 & 9 appear to have a square neck, but are Bagabo & Moro, respectively. Similarly, the etched panels on the blade faces are present and absent with both associations. The text describes the ferrules of these examples as being of brass or iron.

I suppose that these Malaysian spearheads would have spread throughout the region by trade and capture and so can no more be precisely placed geographically than a European winged spearhead of the 9th - 10th century (socketed instead of tanged, but of about the same size and with sometimes with similar pattern-welding!) Mountings would clearly help, when present, in the rare cases where examples of known provenance are available for comparison. Hopefully, some day the chronology and regional variations will be worked out for these most impressive artifacts.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Lee

Maurice, I have scanned in one of the plates from Krieger (1926) below and have labeled the spears with the tribal associations given in the text. Numbers 8 & 9 appear to have a square neck, but are Bagabo & Moro, respectively. Similarly, the etched panels on the blade faces are present and absent with both associations. The text describes the ferrules of these examples as being of brass or iron.

Lee, thank you for the scanned Krieger plate. I do have the Krieger images on my computer, but in a smaller format, so it is more clear to see now.
Bagobo & moro, panels present and absent, I think a lot of work and research can and need to be done here to find out more about these great pieces...

Originally Posted by Lee

I suppose that these Malaysian spearheads would have spread throughout the region by trade and capture and so can no more be precisely placed geographically than a European winged spearhead of the 9th - 10th century (socketed instead of tanged, but of about the same size and with sometimes with similar pattern-welding!) Mountings would clearly help, when present, in the rare cases where examples of known provenance are available for comparison. Hopefully, some day the chronology and regional variations will be worked out for these most impressive artifacts.

Yes I agree with the trade and capture part. Therefore it is harder to track down the origine for us.
I hope there is somebody able to study the regional variations.
I once started a thread about provenanced pieces. But I was the only one it seemed who was interested in, cause there were no reactions or postings from others. This could enlighten a lot and would be a great threat as reference material and might be an important "Sticky".........but forumites need to post their pieces first...:-)

Maurice

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Maurice .
Could this be a more archaic form of Moro spear ?
Or a distinctly Sulu style ?

I rarely see these compared to the examples I show .

Rick

Hello Rick,

It would be just a guess when I should say it is archaic.
But Lee's example looks very old and different....maybe somebody else can enlighten us?

I don't know much about okir design and region, but maybe there is somebody able to tell anything about the region when looking at the okir design on the silver shaft? (Battara maybe?)

Maurice

[asomotif]

Nice spear head.

The silver shaft can be fixed partly I think.
Than it would be a (even more) attactive piece