Baskethilt

midelburgo · 13th June 2005, 10:09 AM

I think the reason of not finding the "no me envaines" motto earlier than late XVII is both technical and cultural. Technical because the use of cheap acid etching did not become spread before that (OK we find it in Royal swords in XIII century but that is not common). It was usual than the letters were carved or punched one by one, and texts are shorter, rarely more than 10 characters, quite often ininteligible acrostics, and here comes the cultural point, taking the effort to do them, they prefer religious to boastful phrases, at less while swords are more a killing tool than a fashion toy.

Still it is perfectly possible that an example from XVIth or earlier exists, but it will be far from common. When did that Vargas wrote? I would trust him if contemporary to the facts, but not later (the least if he is from XIXth. c). For example Colombians keep as a sacred relic the so called "Sword of Bolivar", suposed to be used in their independance from Spain, 1815-1821, what it is actually a Toledo model from about 1835.

Now I think of it I have a boast rapier blade from around 1610, it has written by punching inside the fuller: "NOMENE TENGO", what possibly means "no me ne attretengo". In English from an Italian dialect "I do not care", and it was adopted as business mark from a Bergamo swordsmith. I will not be surprised if the "no me envaine motto" appeared first in a mutilated way or as initials:
N.M.S.S.R-N.M.E.S.H

Javier

13th June 2005, 10:09 AM	#38
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 257	mottoes I think the reason of not finding the "no me envaines" motto earlier than late XVII is both technical and cultural. Technical because the use of cheap acid etching did not become spread before that (OK we find it in Royal swords in XIII century but that is not common). It was usual than the letters were carved or punched one by one, and texts are shorter, rarely more than 10 characters, quite often ininteligible acrostics, and here comes the cultural point, taking the effort to do them, they prefer religious to boastful phrases, at less while swords are more a killing tool than a fashion toy. Still it is perfectly possible that an example from XVIth or earlier exists, but it will be far from common. When did that Vargas wrote? I would trust him if contemporary to the facts, but not later (the least if he is from XIXth. c). For example Colombians keep as a sacred relic the so called "Sword of Bolivar", suposed to be used in their independance from Spain, 1815-1821, what it is actually a Toledo model from about 1835. Now I think of it I have a boast rapier blade from around 1610, it has written by punching inside the fuller: "NOMENE TENGO", what possibly means "no me ne attretengo". In English from an Italian dialect "I do not care", and it was adopted as business mark from a Bergamo swordsmith. I will not be surprised if the "no me envaine motto" appeared first in a mutilated way or as initials: N.M.S.S.R-N.M.E.S.H Javier