Spanish-American War Period Barong & Kris for Comment

Battara · 10th August 2010, 02:01 AM

Lucky Crud!.....er.......I mean.......congratulations!

Seriously what a great find!

In the kris in question, the pommel looks more to be either white metal or , and I think this likely, a lower grade of silver with lots of tarnish (which can be more yellowish in lower grade silver). Needs to be polished first to see (and a jeweler could test it to be sure).

Swaasa - yes the formula for it varied between the different hues desired (and perhaps costs). Sometimes a metal can look like swaasa, but in the end is a high copper/low silver alloy to appear as swaasa.

The baka-baka appears to be copper or a copper alloy.

Intriguing for a Maguindanao to have a barong (or perhaps it is someone else's barong that the US soldier picked up as well).

Thank you so much for posting and looking forward to more posting of these newly found friends of yours! Salamat!

laEspadaAncha · 10th August 2010, 02:13 AM

Thanks, guys...

And thanks Jose for the input re: the possible answer behind the pommel's "mystery metal." I'm a little apprehensive about polishing it, but I might ask a local jeweler or pawn shop to test it from an inconspicuous place...

Quick side note - when my (late) grandfather's ship put to port in Okinawa in the 1950s, he researched the mei on a katana he had taken possession of as part of the post-war occupation force in Japan during '45-'46. It had ridden around in his Captain's locker for over a decade. He found the family to whom this sword had belonged for 500 years, and proceeded to return it to tis rightful owners. I like to think that good karma has come back time and time again in my own quests for antique arms & armor.

Dimasalang - you missed it, boss! Small house on the Shelter Island side of Pt. Loma... a lot of retired military over there - worth combing on the weekend if you have the time for estate sales.

Anyway, I'll post pics of the other two in a little bit - the barong is sa-weet! You can see the temper line in the photo above...

Battara · 10th August 2010, 02:25 AM

Although there is some slight debate on polishing silver, the big giant no no is polishing bronze . Generally speaking, polishing antique silver is fine and brings it to how it was originally to be seen. To be sure a jeweler would be able to tell you if it is silver or nickel-silver (which is not silver at all!).

ThePepperSkull · 10th August 2010, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Lucky Crud!.....er.......I mean.......congratulations!

Seriously what a great find!

In the kris in question, the pommel looks more to be either white metal or , and I think this likely, a lower grade of silver with lots of tarnish (which can be more yellowish in lower grade silver). Needs to be polished first to see (and a jeweler could test it to be sure).

Swaasa - yes the formula for it varied between the different hues desired (and perhaps costs). Sometimes a metal can look like swaasa, but in the end is a high copper/low silver alloy to appear as swaasa.

The baka-baka appears to be copper or a copper alloy.

Intriguing for a Maguindanao to have a barong (or perhaps it is someone else's barong that the US soldier picked up as well).

Thank you so much for posting and looking forward to more posting of these newly found friends of yours! Salamat!

Very interesting. Isn't the horse hoof pommel (seen in the centre in between the top kris and the barong on the bottom) typical of sulu kris as well? Perhaps he spent some time with the tausugs?

Anyways, thank you for sharing laEspadaAncha! I am still reading through your first post. I had to scroll down to see the pictures of these wonderful pieces first

laEspadaAncha · 10th August 2010, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Very interesting. Isn't the horse hoof pommel (seen in the centre in between the top kris and the barong on the bottom) typical of sulu kris as well? Perhaps he spent some time with the tausugs?

Howdy Pepper... FWIW, what little reference material I have shows several (of this) hoof-pommel kris attributed to both the Maguindanao and Maranao...

Speaking of which, here are photos of the second kris... Curious to hear your collective thoughts. I would call this a "fast" kris - less mass & weight, quicker in the hand, and obviously smaller in size than the first kris. What intrigues me about this is the braided ring/band below the pommel. It has a rich, deep yellow color and bright luster, and I think it might be - might be - gold. I think it originally sat in the groove visible just below the pommel. The ring is open at the back, and I was able to get it to sit in the groove - in which it fit perfectly. However, it has sat where you see it in the photo below for so long, the rattan exhibited too much play when I moved it, so I returned it to the position you see in the photos.

Measurements (approximate):

Blade (measured from where the gangya meets the hilt): 19 5/8 in. / 49.8 cm
OAL: 24 in. / 61 cm
Gangya width: 4 in. / 10 cm

laEspadaAncha · 10th August 2010, 04:15 AM

Lastly, here's the barong. Blade measures approx. 15 in. / 38 cm with a 22-in. / 56 cm OAL. The spine of the blade measures 51/6 of an in. / 8 mm in thickness at the hilt. The color variation you see is just that - there is very little light pitting on the blade, isolated almost completely to a small area on the back-third of the blade on the obverse. I presume the line running (roughly) parallel to the edge is a hardened edge.

All comments welcomed and appreciated...

Rick · 10th August 2010, 04:52 AM

The short ferrule on this Barung would indicate possibly a Yakan origin ?

The second kris is, to me, a bit puzzling; is it Sulu or Mindanao ?

The blade seems to carry aspects of both .

mross · 10th August 2010, 02:46 PM

Intrestingly the horse-hoof exhibits many characteristics of a twist-core. The photo's don't seem to show it but...

laEspadaAncha · 10th August 2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Intrestingly the horse-hoof exhibits many characteristics of a twist-core. The photo's don't seem to show it but...

If I was more confident in my etching abilities (I have a bottle of etchant solution from RadioShack purchased for this purpose that remains unopened to this day), I would be in the process of finding out...

Rick - thanks for the Yakan suggestion & another anthropological lead to follow. Don't know when Yakan people first started settling on Mindinao, but surely there must have been established trading amongst neighboring populations?

10th August 2010, 02:01 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Lucky Crud!.....er.......I mean.......congratulations! Seriously what a great find! In the kris in question, the pommel looks more to be either white metal or , and I think this likely, a lower grade of silver with lots of tarnish (which can be more yellowish in lower grade silver). Needs to be polished first to see (and a jeweler could test it to be sure). Swaasa - yes the formula for it varied between the different hues desired (and perhaps costs). Sometimes a metal can look like swaasa, but in the end is a high copper/low silver alloy to appear as swaasa. The baka-baka appears to be copper or a copper alloy. Intriguing for a Maguindanao to have a barong (or perhaps it is someone else's barong that the US soldier picked up as well). Thank you so much for posting and looking forward to more posting of these newly found friends of yours! Salamat! Last edited by Battara; 10th August 2010 at 02:22 AM.

10th August 2010, 04:15 AM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Lastly, here's the barong. Blade measures approx. 15 in. / 38 cm with a 22-in. / 56 cm OAL. The spine of the blade measures 51/6 of an in. / 8 mm in thickness at the hilt. The color variation you see is just that - there is very little light pitting on the blade, isolated almost completely to a small area on the back-third of the blade on the obverse. I presume the line running (roughly) parallel to the edge is a hardened edge. All comments welcomed and appreciated... Last edited by laEspadaAncha; 10th August 2010 at 04:47 AM.

10th August 2010, 02:13 AM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thanks, guys... And thanks Jose for the input re: the possible answer behind the pommel's "mystery metal." I'm a little apprehensive about polishing it, but I might ask a local jeweler or pawn shop to test it from an inconspicuous place... Quick side note - when my (late) grandfather's ship put to port in Okinawa in the 1950s, he researched the mei on a katana he had taken possession of as part of the post-war occupation force in Japan during '45-'46. It had ridden around in his Captain's locker for over a decade. He found the family to whom this sword had belonged for 500 years, and proceeded to return it to tis rightful owners. I like to think that good karma has come back time and time again in my own quests for antique arms & armor. Dimasalang - you missed it, boss! Small house on the Shelter Island side of Pt. Loma... a lot of retired military over there - worth combing on the weekend if you have the time for estate sales. Anyway, I'll post pics of the other two in a little bit - the barong is sa-weet! You can see the temper line in the photo above...

10th August 2010, 02:25 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Although there is some slight debate on polishing silver, the big giant no no is polishing bronze . Generally speaking, polishing antique silver is fine and brings it to how it was originally to be seen. To be sure a jeweler would be able to tell you if it is silver or nickel-silver (which is not silver at all!).

10th August 2010, 04:52 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The short ferrule on this Barung would indicate possibly a Yakan origin ? The second kris is, to me, a bit puzzling; is it Sulu or Mindanao ? The blade seems to carry aspects of both .

10th August 2010, 02:46 PM	#8
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Intrestingly the horse-hoof exhibits many characteristics of a twist-core. The photo's don't seem to show it but...