Who won the eBay listed Tenegre dated 1899?

Dimasalang · 6th June 2010, 01:41 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160439333804

I'm sure some folks on here may say it went for way to much considering the price of other swords of similar design and detail. But this sword has serious provenance which makes it really significant from a historical stand point.
It is etched "BALANTANG 21, NOV. 1899"
That would make this sword having true provenance, not only to Aguinaldos 1st Republic in the Visayas region, but to the "Battle of Balantang" between the US forces and Filipino soldiers at Jaro, Iloilo, Panay Island on Nov 21, 1899. To bad the seller did not know that to note it in the description. This specific battle is not well documented and is not well recognized amongst the other battles during the Philippine American War..but it is one of the greatest battles in the Visayan islands! It is of my own opinion it was not well recognized because of the lack of high ranking officers present at the battle, which inevitably always leads to lack of reported documentation and thus lack of significance in military history. But the soldiers who fought in this battle wrote and told its story. You can possibly rank it as one of the largest battles through out the islands, pitting 3,000 Filipino soldiers against 600 US Soldiers.
That price doesn't seem all that bad once you know the history...you might even say someone got lucky.

Battara · 6th June 2010, 01:56 AM

I think it was just right with the provenance.

That's great that the battle and date are engraved into the blade. A piece of history right there in their hand.

Hope it is one of us or a Pinoy.

Dimasalang · 6th June 2010, 07:07 PM

Definitely! I'm guessing no one here won it.

Hope it ended up in the right hands.

ThePepperSkull · 6th June 2010, 07:20 PM

Thank you, Dimasalang!

My mother was half japanese and half ilonggo (With a bit of indonesian mixed in somewhere as well i believe her saying), so finding anything out about her side of the family's heritage is always a treat. (On these forums it is easier to get access to my Father's side of the family heritage, him being a Sulu-Chinese-Irish-Black mix.... very strange but I guess that makes me even more unique?

)

Very interesting, and it's amazing that such a piece would end up on ebay. Hopefully the new owner is either aware of its significance or will soon be aware of it due to this forum posting.

You stated that although there weren't many officers of high rank there, this battle was written about. Do you have any sources that I can look up and read more on in regards to this specific battle?

katana · 6th June 2010, 10:15 PM

An interesting sword, even more so if used in a well known battle. But, can we say that a engraving on the blade is 'provenance', proof positive that this sword 'was there'. The reply to a question (on the listing) states that the people from whom this sword was bought, had no idea as to its history.
Many forgers use engraving to 'prove' the age etc. of their counterfeit products ...so, I am always suspicious.

Regards David

Battara · 7th June 2010, 02:24 AM

Katana, I would tend to agree with you regarding US Civil War pieces or Japanese pieces, etc.

However, usually on PI/Moro pieces this is not the case especially since they don't get the kind of money that an engraving like this would fetch if it were a nihonto or CSA piece.

Plus, the inside of the engraving has patina inside and is not new. I believe it to be legit.

Dimasalang · 8th June 2010, 10:24 PM

Pepperskull, cool to know some of your background. And wow that is quite a mix!

From what I've read on this particular battle, a Lt Col Dickman was the officer in charge of 6 companies of the 26th Volunteers and 1 company of the 6th Inf. He reported casualties, captures, and field pieces to his superiors, but he did not leave a written report on this engagement. Some reports only give one sentence acknowledgment to this battle and listed it as a "stronghold". The testimony of one soldier named Obrien mentioned this as the largest battle as he estimated the opposition to be near 3000. I can send you the war report of the Panay Campaign, let me know if you want to read through it.

In WWII Balantang was also said to be the bloodiest battle between the Japanese and the Filipino Guerrillas. I am guessing the geographics to this barrio made this place important if it was a stronghold used in the Phil-Am War and was marked as the bloodiest battle for the guerrillas in WWII.

Dimasalang · 8th June 2010, 10:27 PM

Katana, I'm in agreement with Battara. To add also, if the engravings were indeed added later to give it provenance, why pick a specific battle that is nearly insignificant and unknown? The word battle is not even engraved as well...so there is no clue to it even being part of a war on the surface. Balantang is a small barrio of Jaro...by American accounts Balantang is not even mentioned by name. If it were me, I would of added "Martin Delgado" or "Santa Barbara"(HQ of the Filipino force in Panay)...something that is easily recalled and would have added considerably more value to the sword.

nacho · 9th June 2010, 04:28 AM

The reason Balantang was prominent in both the Philippine-American War and WW2 is because of its strategic location. Balantang is in the outskirts of Jaro, the last major town of Iloilo City. There was only one bridge over the Iloilo river (another bridge was built 10 yrs ago) that links Jaro to the road that leads to the major Panay towns of Leganes and Pototan to the east. This place is also called "tabuk suba" (in English, river crossing).

So, to defend Iloilo City (in those early days, Jaro was where the illustrados lived. That's where the grand mansions of the hacienderos are clustered in), the defensive line must be held at Tabuk Suba.

Tabuk Suba is part of Barrio Balantang.

During the Philippine American war, the Americans held the positions within the city as they entered via the port of Iloilo. The Philippine forces under Delgado harrassed the enemy from the outlying towns of Santa Barbara and Leganes/Pototan.

During WW2 (when the Americans where already in Leyte but Iloilo was still in Japanese hands), the Japanese defensive line was again at Tabuk Suba. The Lizares Mansion, just across the river, was used as their principal garrisson.

Spunjer · 9th June 2010, 05:50 AM

ahh, tabuk suba... Hehehe. My old stomping ground. Right across the tractor dealership (i think it's a supermarket now).
anyways, interesting post. Cool info, nacho...

Dimasalang · 9th June 2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nacho

The reason Balantang was prominent in both the Philippine-American War and WW2 is because of its strategic location. Balantang is in the outskirts of Jaro, the last major town of Iloilo City. There was only one bridge over the Iloilo river (another bridge was built 10 yrs ago) that links Jaro to the road that leads to the major Panay towns of Leganes and Pototan to the east. This place is also called "tabuk suba" (in English, river crossing).

So, to defend Iloilo City (in those early days, Jaro was where the illustrados lived. That's where the grand mansions of the hacienderos are clustered in), the defensive line must be held at Tabuk Suba.

Tabuk Suba is part of Barrio Balantang.

During the Philippine American war, the Americans held the positions within the city as they entered via the port of Iloilo. The Philippine forces under Delgado harrassed the enemy from the outlying towns of Santa Barbara and Leganes/Pototan.

During WW2 (when the Americans where already in Leyte but Iloilo was still in Japanese hands), the Japanese defensive line was again at Tabuk Suba. The Lizares Mansion, just across the river, was used as their principal garrisson.

Thanks Nacho for detailing and elaborating more on that area. Your post is greatly appreciated in this thread.

6th June 2010, 01:41 AM	#1
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Who won the eBay listed Tenegre dated 1899? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160439333804 I'm sure some folks on here may say it went for way to much considering the price of other swords of similar design and detail. But this sword has serious provenance which makes it really significant from a historical stand point. It is etched "BALANTANG 21, NOV. 1899" That would make this sword having true provenance, not only to Aguinaldos 1st Republic in the Visayas region, but to the "Battle of Balantang" between the US forces and Filipino soldiers at Jaro, Iloilo, Panay Island on Nov 21, 1899. To bad the seller did not know that to note it in the description. This specific battle is not well documented and is not well recognized amongst the other battles during the Philippine American War..but it is one of the greatest battles in the Visayan islands! It is of my own opinion it was not well recognized because of the lack of high ranking officers present at the battle, which inevitably always leads to lack of reported documentation and thus lack of significance in military history. But the soldiers who fought in this battle wrote and told its story. You can possibly rank it as one of the largest battles through out the islands, pitting 3,000 Filipino soldiers against 600 US Soldiers. That price doesn't seem all that bad once you know the history...you might even say someone got lucky. Last edited by Dimasalang; 6th June 2010 at 02:01 AM.

6th June 2010, 01:56 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	I think it was just right with the provenance. That's great that the battle and date are engraved into the blade. A piece of history right there in their hand. Hope it is one of us or a Pinoy.

6th June 2010, 07:07 PM	#3
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Definitely! I'm guessing no one here won it. Hope it ended up in the right hands.

6th June 2010, 07:20 PM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thank you, Dimasalang! My mother was half japanese and half ilonggo (With a bit of indonesian mixed in somewhere as well i believe her saying), so finding anything out about her side of the family's heritage is always a treat. (On these forums it is easier to get access to my Father's side of the family heritage, him being a Sulu-Chinese-Irish-Black mix.... very strange but I guess that makes me even more unique? ) Very interesting, and it's amazing that such a piece would end up on ebay. Hopefully the new owner is either aware of its significance or will soon be aware of it due to this forum posting. You stated that although there weren't many officers of high rank there, this battle was written about. Do you have any sources that I can look up and read more on in regards to this specific battle?

6th June 2010, 10:15 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	An interesting sword, even more so if used in a well known battle. But, can we say that a engraving on the blade is 'provenance', proof positive that this sword 'was there'. The reply to a question (on the listing) states that the people from whom this sword was bought, had no idea as to its history. Many forgers use engraving to 'prove' the age etc. of their counterfeit products ...so, I am always suspicious. Regards David

7th June 2010, 02:24 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Katana, I would tend to agree with you regarding US Civil War pieces or Japanese pieces, etc. However, usually on PI/Moro pieces this is not the case especially since they don't get the kind of money that an engraving like this would fetch if it were a nihonto or CSA piece. Plus, the inside of the engraving has patina inside and is not new. I believe it to be legit.

8th June 2010, 10:24 PM	#7
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Pepperskull, cool to know some of your background. And wow that is quite a mix! From what I've read on this particular battle, a Lt Col Dickman was the officer in charge of 6 companies of the 26th Volunteers and 1 company of the 6th Inf. He reported casualties, captures, and field pieces to his superiors, but he did not leave a written report on this engagement. Some reports only give one sentence acknowledgment to this battle and listed it as a "stronghold". The testimony of one soldier named Obrien mentioned this as the largest battle as he estimated the opposition to be near 3000. I can send you the war report of the Panay Campaign, let me know if you want to read through it. In WWII Balantang was also said to be the bloodiest battle between the Japanese and the Filipino Guerrillas. I am guessing the geographics to this barrio made this place important if it was a stronghold used in the Phil-Am War and was marked as the bloodiest battle for the guerrillas in WWII.

8th June 2010, 10:27 PM	#8
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Katana, I'm in agreement with Battara. To add also, if the engravings were indeed added later to give it provenance, why pick a specific battle that is nearly insignificant and unknown? The word battle is not even engraved as well...so there is no clue to it even being part of a war on the surface. Balantang is a small barrio of Jaro...by American accounts Balantang is not even mentioned by name. If it were me, I would of added "Martin Delgado" or "Santa Barbara"(HQ of the Filipino force in Panay)...something that is easily recalled and would have added considerably more value to the sword.

9th June 2010, 04:28 AM	#9
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	The reason Balantang was prominent in both the Philippine-American War and WW2 is because of its strategic location. Balantang is in the outskirts of Jaro, the last major town of Iloilo City. There was only one bridge over the Iloilo river (another bridge was built 10 yrs ago) that links Jaro to the road that leads to the major Panay towns of Leganes and Pototan to the east. This place is also called "tabuk suba" (in English, river crossing). So, to defend Iloilo City (in those early days, Jaro was where the illustrados lived. That's where the grand mansions of the hacienderos are clustered in), the defensive line must be held at Tabuk Suba. Tabuk Suba is part of Barrio Balantang. During the Philippine American war, the Americans held the positions within the city as they entered via the port of Iloilo. The Philippine forces under Delgado harrassed the enemy from the outlying towns of Santa Barbara and Leganes/Pototan. During WW2 (when the Americans where already in Leyte but Iloilo was still in Japanese hands), the Japanese defensive line was again at Tabuk Suba. The Lizares Mansion, just across the river, was used as their principal garrisson.

9th June 2010, 05:50 AM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ahh, tabuk suba... Hehehe. My old stomping ground. Right across the tractor dealership (i think it's a supermarket now). anyways, interesting post. Cool info, nacho...