yatagan inscription for translation

Valjhun · 11th July 2008, 12:32 AM

Can someone translate that inscription for me? Thanks

Dom · 13th July 2008, 12:34 AM

Hi
unfortunately incomplet

but may be someone will complete it ??

à +

Dom

katana · 13th July 2008, 01:35 AM

Hi Dom,
I have never needed a translation, but I really appreciate you spending the time in the translations that you do ...and you seem to do many.
Good work

Regards David

Dom · 13th July 2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I have never needed a translation

Hi David

one day Inch'Allah

your compliments are really appreciated
in a favourable time, I will remember

when peoples request gently a translation,
and then, doesn't acknowledge to have read it
it's a little bite frustrating

it's a life, I know ...

à +

Dom

Valjhun · 14th July 2008, 07:16 AM

Thank you very much, Dom.

Is Madkoor a name? Possibly the owner?

Dom · 14th July 2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Thank you very much, Dom.

Is Madkoor a name? Possibly the owner?

Yes .. Madkoor or Madkour

no firm spelling as far as it's trancripted from an other alphabet
only the sound is important

à +

Dom

Henk · 14th July 2008, 01:04 PM

Dom,

May I ask you if you are willing to take a look at the writing on this yataghan blade? Thusfar no one was able to tell what language it is or to translate it.
I'm afraid you're the only one at this moment who might tell me something about the writing. Thanks in advance.

Dom · 14th July 2008, 01:58 PM

Hi Henk
truely, at the first view ... not easy AT ALL

leave some days, but you will've an answer,
what ever it will be ... 'll be

à +

Dom

Zifir · 14th July 2008, 03:20 PM

hi,

the first script is:

Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindendir (O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of ....... who is one of your Ummah (community of believers) -usually there comes the name of the owner after "ümmetindendir" but in this one we don't have it. Yet we get the name from the second script:

Amel-i Abdullah sahib Hasan Beşe (the title "beşe" donates that he was a janissary)

Our swordmaker, Abdullah, (if he was the one who wrote the inscription) was not much a literate person as it is clear from his spelling of "ummah" so Dom still did a great job

Dom · 14th July 2008, 03:28 PM

Thanks Zifir for your help

à +

Dom

Valjhun · 14th July 2008, 07:19 PM

Zifir? Have you translated the inscription on my yataghan or Henks' one?

Henk · 15th July 2008, 09:04 AM

Valjhun,

I believe Zifir completed the translation on your yataghan. Great job!

I wait ancious till Dom returns, but maybe Zifir could help on my inscription as well.

Zifir · 15th July 2008, 10:02 AM

Valjhun, it was your yatağan that I translated.

Henk,
At first, the inscription on your yatağan seemed all gibbersih but then I recognized the formula which I translated in one of my earlier posts.

It is:

Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir

These are the names of Ashab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog.

Still I don't have any clue about why they put these names on a yatağan.

Best,

Henk · 15th July 2008, 11:10 AM

Zifir,

Thank you so much for your efforts. I already asked so many people for a translation or the meaning of this writing. Even someone who spoke Farsi and the old turkish language was not able to help me out.
I do know the story of the Seven Sleepers in the cave near Ephesus. Don't have an explanation either why the names of these Sleepers are written on my yataghan. But the legend is mythical.

Çok teşekür ederim, Zifir.

TVV · 15th July 2008, 04:30 PM

I have asked a Bulgarian scientist, who studies symbolism on Balkan weapons about the significance of the Seven Sleepers inscriptions on yatagans. She explained it to me quite well, and here is my very poor attempt at a summary:
Even though it was originally a Christian legend, the tale of the seven sleepers was adopted by Muslims as well. On the surface, the legend is about strength of faith. It could also be an alegory of death and salvation. When a person dies, he goes to sleep, only to be awakened by the Almighty. Therefore, if the owner of the yatagan dies in battle, he can expect to be saved by Allah and enter Paradise. This ties in well with the concept of martyrdom.
I am not sure if this is the correct explanation, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Best regards,
Teodor

Henk · 15th July 2008, 07:04 PM

Teodor, it certainly makes sense.
If it is like you said the correct explanation, i certainly can imagine something why these names are put on this yataghan.
Very interesting subject. Thanks again.

11th July 2008, 12:32 AM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	yatagan inscription for translation Can someone translate that inscription for me? Thanks Attached Images

13th July 2008, 12:34 AM	#2
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi unfortunately incomplet but may be someone will complete it ?? à + Dom Attached Images

14th July 2008, 01:04 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Dom, May I ask you if you are willing to take a look at the writing on this yataghan blade? Thusfar no one was able to tell what language it is or to translate it. I'm afraid you're the only one at this moment who might tell me something about the writing. Thanks in advance. Attached Images

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13th July 2008, 01:35 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Dom, I have never needed a translation, but I really appreciate you spending the time in the translations that you do ...and you seem to do many. Good work Regards David

14th July 2008, 07:16 AM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you very much, Dom. Is Madkoor a name? Possibly the owner?

14th July 2008, 01:58 PM	#8
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Henk truely, at the first view ... not easy AT ALL leave some days, but you will've an answer, what ever it will be ... 'll be à + Dom

14th July 2008, 03:20 PM	#9
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	hi, the first script is: Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindendir (O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of ....... who is one of your Ummah (community of believers) -usually there comes the name of the owner after "ümmetindendir" but in this one we don't have it. Yet we get the name from the second script: Amel-i Abdullah sahib Hasan Beşe (the title "beşe" donates that he was a janissary) Our swordmaker, Abdullah, (if he was the one who wrote the inscription) was not much a literate person as it is clear from his spelling of "ummah" so Dom still did a great job

14th July 2008, 03:28 PM	#10
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Thanks Zifir for your help à + Dom

14th July 2008, 07:19 PM	#11
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Zifir? Have you translated the inscription on my yataghan or Henks' one?

15th July 2008, 09:04 AM	#12
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Valjhun, I believe Zifir completed the translation on your yataghan. Great job! I wait ancious till Dom returns, but maybe Zifir could help on my inscription as well.

15th July 2008, 10:02 AM	#13
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Valjhun, it was your yatağan that I translated. Henk, At first, the inscription on your yatağan seemed all gibbersih but then I recognized the formula which I translated in one of my earlier posts. It is: Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir These are the names of Ashab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog. Still I don't have any clue about why they put these names on a yatağan. Best,

15th July 2008, 11:10 AM	#14
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Zifir, Thank you so much for your efforts. I already asked so many people for a translation or the meaning of this writing. Even someone who spoke Farsi and the old turkish language was not able to help me out. I do know the story of the Seven Sleepers in the cave near Ephesus. Don't have an explanation either why the names of these Sleepers are written on my yataghan. But the legend is mythical. Çok teşekür ederim, Zifir.

15th July 2008, 04:30 PM	#15
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,620	I have asked a Bulgarian scientist, who studies symbolism on Balkan weapons about the significance of the Seven Sleepers inscriptions on yatagans. She explained it to me quite well, and here is my very poor attempt at a summary: Even though it was originally a Christian legend, the tale of the seven sleepers was adopted by Muslims as well. On the surface, the legend is about strength of faith. It could also be an alegory of death and salvation. When a person dies, he goes to sleep, only to be awakened by the Almighty. Therefore, if the owner of the yatagan dies in battle, he can expect to be saved by Allah and enter Paradise. This ties in well with the concept of martyrdom. I am not sure if this is the correct explanation, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Best regards, Teodor

15th July 2008, 07:04 PM	#16
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Teodor, it certainly makes sense. If it is like you said the correct explanation, i certainly can imagine something why these names are put on this yataghan. Very interesting subject. Thanks again.