an khanda sword

[dralin23]

hi all
please tell me your opinion over these khanda sword. what think you from wich ct. is it?
i will not sell it
stefan

[dralin23]

some more pics.

[Valjhun]

amazing.... one of the best khandas out there...

Are you considering to restore the padding? I will do it, if it were mine. Only the best red velvet couscions allowed

[Rick]

There appears to be something odd about the 'wootz' pattern ...

[RobT]

Hi All,
Rick's comment made me look at the pattern more closely and wonder whether it is the result of an acid etch on a wax resist rather than wootz. I have a kard whereon that technique was applied. If indeed the pattern was produced by acid etching unwatered steel, how was such a subtle pattern produced? From the looks of it, manually scraping away the resist wouldn't achieve such an intricate, random, and smoothly curved pattern of swirls (at least not cost effectively). So, if this pattern is a product of a wax resist, the question becomes, how was the resist etched to produce the pattern?
Sincerely,
RobT

[CharlesS]

This is certainly 'faux wootz'. Either acid etched or "waxed".

I have never understood the mentality of that(either) process as it was so time consuming and labor intensive, and often was a way of saying, "I can't afford real wootz". It seems the real thing would have actually been cheaper, but I suppose that labor and time were two things not in short supply in 19th Cent. India.

One thing for sure...it certainly shows the status and importance of a "wootz look".

Now, I have a question....I have heard these sorts of swords referred to in a variety of different ways. Is this a 'patissa' with a 'khanda' hilt, or is it a 'khanda' in general???

[ward]

I think if you look closely you will see some repetition in the pattern. make up a basic block stamp pour wax on and stamp it, and over stamp it. You have your pattern made up in less than 1/2 hour and then etch with acid. Once you have carved your stamp you can use it over and over, making it very cost effective

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Stefan,
Is it possible for you to get better pictures of the blade? Try outside like you did, but with a black background.

Hi Ward,
Yes I see what you mean, but this kind of ’false’ watering would wear off rather fast. I have not, in any of my books, seen described how to make ‘false’ watering, but I suppose it was done.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Yes I see what you mean, but this kind of ’false’ watering would wear off rather fast. I have not, in any of my books, seen described how to make ‘false’ watering, but I suppose it was done.

Jens, if this is the case (false watering) would the lack of wear bring into question the actual age of this sword ?

Stefan, might we have the dimensions of this sword please ?

[ward]

It does not wear like that, if it is a parade weapon. As far as how long they have been doing this false damascus finish here is a excerpt from "Method of making Steel in the style of Damascus"

written in 1771

by Jean Jacques Perret


I have seen some hunting swords which were sold as damascus, but which I suspected not to be, in part because the blackish veins were too deep, and in part because their edges would not cut iron. Indeed their edges were so blunt and ill-shaped that they would not even cut wood. I tried to discover the method of "damascening" blades as boldly as these. After several trials I took a blade of polished steel and I covered it with a coating of wax, which I let drip from a lighted candle. I spread the wax evenly over the entire surface. Then I drew a quantity of lines in the wax, using a steel scribe which served me as a pencil. After that I poured some acid on the wax. I allowed it to bite or dissolve the steel which my "pencil" had uncovered for about an hour. I then cleaned it off, and found that I had discovered the whole secret.

[katana]

In one of the pictures, the 'patterning' seems to be 'raised'. Stefan if your rub your fingernail across the blade does it feel smooth or rough ?

The condition of the sword, overall, is exceptional, and, as has already been said, looks relatively new.

I took the liberty of enlarging and cropping one of the pictures of the blade

[Tatyana Dianova]

I believe I have seen this khanda once, but from some distance (2-3 meters). It looked quite impressive and large, maybe around 1 meter overall, and nice as well As far as I remember, the gold looked not so newly made as on the pictures. It seems to me that we have to wait for some more pictures at least 1 week, until Stefan will come back from his vacation .

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Rick,

You are, of course right, and I am wrong, the false watering shown on Katana’s pictures – if they are as deep as they seems – will of course not be worn as fast as real watering. As I can’t recall to have seen ‘false’ watering before, I would be glad if Stefan could show some better pictures.

Thank you Ward for the hint.
Nice picture you made Katana

[katana]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Nice picture you made Katana
[/font]

Thanks Jens...but I cannot take all the credit....Stefan provided excellent quality pictures

[Valjhun]

False wootz or we have a case of overacidification?

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by katana

In one of the pictures, the 'patterning' seems to be 'raised'. Stefan if your rub your fingernail across the blade does it feel smooth or rough ?

The condition of the sword, overall, is exceptional, and, as has already been said, looks relatively new.

I took the liberty of enlarging and cropping one of the pictures of the blade

Katana has a very good point. Stefan, please inspect the surface of the blade closely for ANY uneven or raised formations. It also may appear as acid etch on the photo. As in the following close-up of an Indian Tegha: it is real wootz (an Indian wootz), but it appears as acid-etched on the picture.

[galvano]

it is "dendritic wootz"
galvano

[Battara]

I'm still in the "false wootz" camp. We need Ann, Rsword, or Artzi here on this one. I have seen wax resist patterns identical to these examples.

[dralin23]

hi all,
at first sorry for the late answers from me, i was one week not at home!! and now,
thank you all for your answers and opinions because these sword. it was an great help for me even then i must listen that the blade is possible false wootz. maybe it is realy so. in the last days i looked in some books in the hope i can find such an wootz pattern but i must see that the typical wood like patern from true wootz steel isn´t at the surface from these blade. these pattern shows nearby like the pattern at the blade from the tegha from alex. you can feel it with the finger tips.
one question was (how is the lenght from these khanda) it is over all 91cm, the blade is 69cm and at the top it is 6,5cm wide. it shows not newly made and also the koftgari si not new made.you can find these khanda pattern in the book from a.c. tirri ( islamic arms) you can see some wear patern. i ask me why should used in such an mounting an false wootz blade?

[rand]

Is this the condition blade was in when you purchased it? Was there previously a light layer of rust that was removed? It may be the lighting, but the color of the metal looks a dull grey with no luster, not the hard shine of smooth metal I would expect, that could be caused from applying a rust remover like naval jelly to take rust from intricate goldwork.

The blade definately is false damascus, the color of the gold and the style of the decoration appear 19th century. Nice khanda....

rand

[dralin23]

hi rand
yes these pictures shows these sword in these condition like i bought it for one year at an antique show in germany. the blade wasn´t newly etched than at the backsite from the blade are old gark rustdots. i don´t know if it is an parade sword ore for the palace guard was made. unfortunatly i can´t find an realy good book over khanda ore other maratha and rajasthan weapons. can someone offert me such an book??
stefan